Cloaking question

[Ed Kolis]

OK, I want to redo the cloaking in my mod (when will I ever finish?) to be sort of like Suicide Junkie's new cloaking model, but I'm not sure exactly how it works. According to the Online manual, ships start out with level 1 Active-EM scanning and level 0 everything else. It also says that a level X scan will beat a level X cloak. But if that's so, why do the cloaks start at level 2? Why isn't there a level 1 cloak? Is this an obi-wan error? I seem to recall something like that coming up before... I don't want ships running around thinking they're cloaked but they're not! (As if it mattered, since no one's playtested my mod yet except to make a few ship designs on High tech level!) Because I was going to add in a level 1 cloak but if it was going to be useless then I wouldn't bother... also I want to know if a top-level cloak will beat a top-level scanner or vice versa so I know at what level to stop the cloaks and scanners.

[rextorres]

Another ambiguity in the rules.

The way it works is scanner tech level beats equivalent cloaking tech level - and a level x cloak prevents a level x scan.

So cloaking 1 and stealth armor prevent scan level 1 and they are cloaked to a non scannered ship which can only scan at level 1.

As you get tech

Scan level of a scanner is Tech Level of scanner + 1.

So For instance Tachyon Scanner at Tech Level 1 allows active scanning at level 2.

Scan level prevention of cloak is Tech Level of cloak.

Scanner 1 i.e. tachyon, hyperoptics, graviton, et. al. (all functionally the same btw) start at scanning level 2 thus defeating stealth armor and level 1 cloak which only stop scanning level 1.

So at the highest tech level cloaking 3 stops up to level 3 scans and tech level scanner 3 et.al. scan at level 4.

[ July 28, 2002, 02:19: Message edited by: augustinetorres ]

[Fyron]

A level one cloak can be detected by ships without scanners.

In the unmodded game, a top-level scanner beats a top-level cloak.

The scanning ability can detect an equal level of cloaking ability.

ie:
Ability 1 Type := Sensor Level
Ability 1 Descr := Allows EM Active scanning at level 2.
Ability 1 Val 1 := EM Active
Ability 1 Val 2 := 2

beats

Ability 1 Type := Cloak Level
Ability 1 Descr := Prevents level 1 Active EM scans.
Ability 1 Val 1 := EM Active
Ability 1 Val 2 := 2

The reason why the cloaking device's description is one level lower than the cloak level is because it only defeats a lower level scanner (of the same type). Since ships have level 1 scanners built in, cloaking (and scanning) must begin at level 2 to be effective.

[ July 28, 2002, 02:01: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Suicide Junkie]

The way I have cloaking set up for P&N 2.6, is thusly:

Ship hulls get a gravitic cloak from 1 to 5, based on size.
You could expand this so that hulls are given a gravitic cloak of 1500 - (size in kt).

Then a level 850 grav scanner would see any ship bigger than 1500-850 = 650 kt, ie: battleships or bigger.

Active scanners are blocked by various levels of Scattering armor, in a simple 1,2,3 levels.

Passive scanners are blocked by stealth armor of various levels similar to active.

Psychic cloaking is provided by Master Computers.
The 40KT MC gives the best, the 20KT MC gives the least.

Temporal cloaking is provided by tachyon- technobabble components, which also protect against Tachyon Cannons (weapon destroying damage type)

Overall, at top tech, the cloaking components can defeat the top level scanning components.
However, the grav cloaking is still limited to the tiny ships, and after they add all the other cloaking components, they are quite weak, and fairly easy to destroy via conventional weapons or mines.

The sensor components are boosted in resource cost and size. The more valuable ones are extremely oversized.
For example, the high-end gravitics can only be carried on base-sized vehicles, and cost an arm and a leg.
Psychic scanners require tons of organics and plenty of space (lifesupport & crewquarters for the psychics doing the scanning)

[Phoenix-D]

"level 1 Active-EM scanning and level 0 everything else. It also says that a level X scan will beat a level X cloak. But if that's so, why do the cloaks start at level 2? Why isn't there a level 1 cloak?"

Think about it a little more using just that paragraph.

Ships start with level 1 scanning. Level 1 scanning beats level 1 cloak. Therefore.. level 1 cloak = useless.

Phoenix-D

[Ed Kolis]

Thanks - I think I've got it now - a level X cloak beats a level X scan when you look at the abilities, but it works the other way when you look at the tech levels. I'm probably going to mod things so the abilities match the tech levels (or at least the roman numerals) - of course while this makes it less confusing for me it might make things more confusing for everybody else who is used to the way things worked before!

edit: no wait I got it backwards again!

[ July 31, 2002, 18:16: Message edited by: Ed Kolis ]

[Baron Munchausen]

When scan and cloak levels are equal, scan wins. You are visible. It used to be that the cloaking device ability descriptions said that the same level of scanning and cloaking would make you invisible. The old descriptions for the cloaking devices were wrong, but I think they've created an assumption that is now 'embedded' in everyone's minds...

[Ed Kolis]

Hmm, I've run into another snag... What is the point of a level 1 cloak in anything but EM-Active? According to what I read in the manual it seems such a cloak would have no effect unless there were a level 1 scanner in EM-Active - ships start with level 1 scan in EM-Active and level 0 in everything else, right? Or do they start with level 1 in everything? If that were true, then you'd need a level 1 cloak in everything in order to be invisible from even the lowliest satellite! But there's no level 1 EM-Passive scanner, or level 1 Psychic scanner... all the scanners start at level 2. So what IS the point of a level 1 cloak in something other than EM-Active?

[Fyron]

There isn't really one. Don't worry too much about it and just start at 2.

[Suicide Junkie]

In order to avoid confusion, why don't we set all scanners to odd levels, and cloaks to even levels?

Scanners would have ability amounts of 3,5,7,9,11
and cloaks would have amounts of 2,4,6,8,10.

It is now painfully obvious which one wins in any particular matchup.