.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

Bronze- Save $7.00
Salvo- Save $7.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > The Camo Workshop > WinSPWW2 > TO&Es
Notices


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 27th, 2018, 07:39 PM

Pibwl Pibwl is offline
First Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Poland
Posts: 757
Thanks: 58
Thanked 179 Times in 138 Posts
Pibwl is on a distinguished road
Default Netherlands OOB28 v.11 (2018)

Artillery

173 Krupp 150mm FH - its weapon is 120mm Krupp L12, and it should be changed to 150mm Krupp L17 in accordance with a name and photo (especially, that another 120mm howitzer is redundant, as we already have #174 120mm Bofors). Range was 8.7 km http://www.waroverholland.nl/index.p...-mm-and-150-mm (150mm guns have warhead 8, HE penetration 4, HE kill 21).
Icon should be single-trail - best seems 2116.

174 Bofors 120mm FH - icon should be changed to single-trail - best seems 2115.
It's worth to rename weapon "Bofors 12 cm" to "12cm Bofors L14" to give more information - or "120mm Bofors" in accordance with other guns.

Better unit names in accordance with other field guns in this OOB might be "150mm Krupp FH" and "120 mm Bofors FH" - or 15 cm and 12 cm, as these weapons were known.
BTW #39 75mm Field Gun and #41 105mm Howitzer were just known as 7 cm and 10 cm (7-veld and 10-veld - "veld" = field?)

39 75mm Field Gun - icon 2111 has too short barrel for L/30 field gun (http://www.waroverholland.nl/index.p...eld-gun-7-veld), and it's currently used by small 57mm gun in addition. Best seems 2112 or 8044.
Same for similar 278 KNIL 75mm How (which uses different icon).

41 105mm Howitzer - better icon for shielded 105mm gun seems 2125 (used for German 105mm gun)

288,289 57mm Mtn Gun, Inf Gun - it's worth to unify their icons - better of the two seems 2111, with narrower trail - or maybe yet better is smaller 2108 (gun's look: http://www.milweb.net/webvert/75660)
BTW: it was known just as 6 cm gun

299,300 84mm Mtn Gun, Inf-gun - icon should be changed to differentiate from 57mm gun - best seems 8017 (19th century design - plain narrow trail, no shield), or 2114 (gun's look http://www.waroverholland.nl/index.p...ld-gun-8-staal )
It was known just as 8 cm gun
However, according to that page it was rather used as howitzer in improvised units than infantry gun


Speaking of mountain guns (used by KNIL only):

288 57mm Mtn Gun
290 65mm Mtn Gun
299 84mm Mtn Gun
301 95mm Mtn Gun
- there's no info on https://www.quartermastersection.com...ies/artillery/ and quite complete article https://web.archive.org/web/20160304...artillery.html that the KNIL Army used any other mountain guns apart from #297 75mm Bofors - which were delivered already in 1924-25. According to the latter page, 12 guns were given to each Mountain Artillery Battalion, so there was no need of obsolete guns anymore (if they got to East Indies at all).
BTW: 297 75mm FG should be rather renamed Mtn gun.
There is no information on other guns in "Ad-hoc formations 1941-42" section either.
Only in "Mobile Artillery outside Java" section there is a mention of two obsolete 70 mm L/14(!) Mountain guns on Tarakan.

I guess there's no reason for mountain artillery units to be available only from 1937.

Weapon #32 75 mm Bofors has probably erroneous range 93 - Hogg's "Twentieth-century artillery" credits it with 9,300 m, https://www.quartermastersection.com...1264/75mmM1924 even 10,500 m (both values are hard to believe for L/22 gun, but do we have other sources?...)

303 70mm Mtn Gun - it duplicates #297 75mm FG and partially covers its period. Probably #297 should cease with fall of East Indies (the guns apparently were left there). But there would be a gap in formation 206 then.
Name of #303 unit should rather be 75mm Mtn gun, same for #304

Speaking of KNIL infantry guns:

It's a shared class with European units, but there are KNIL-marked units and formations:
291 KNIL 65mm IG
298 KNIL75mm IG (Bofors)
302 - KNIL 95mm IG


The quoted pages don't give any information, if KNIL used any infantry guns. I have no idea whether there existed old 65mm guns, but surely 75mm Bofors weren't used as infantry guns, because all went to mountain artillery (above). 95mm gun seems British weapon, and there's no information if they were sold in 1937.
Page https://web.archive.org/web/20160304...artillery.html may restrict itself to field and mountain artillery only (although I think they would have described also infantry guns, if they existed), but there is also a weak hint, that page https://www.quartermastersection.com/dutch-east-indies/ does not mention infantry guns.

Infantry guns are used in formations:
210 KNIL Field Guns - Available: 01/37-12/46
211 KNIL FG Bty - Available: 01/37-12/46
256 KNIL Militia Co - Available: 01/30-12/46
258 KNIL Reserve Co - Available: 06/40-12/46

As for the first two, name is wrong, because field guns were ordinary 75mm Krupp L/30 (#278 KNIL 75mm How), while 75mm Bofors were mountains guns, and eventual other infantry guns weren't field guns either.

First two formations are in fact redundant, because we have howitzer and mountain gun formations. I don't know if they should be replaced with something else in last two formations... But infantry guns were rather generally assigned to regiment size units (including 6-veld http://www.waroverholland.nl/index.p...try-gun-6-veld)...


AT guns

12 20mm AT-Gun - there's no confirmation of 20mm Madsen on http://www.waroverholland.nl/index.p...fantry-weapons, https://www.quartermastersection.com/dutch/, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...f_World_War_II, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madsen_20_mm_cannon nor a book "Holland - Paraat!". The page http://www.waroverholland.nl/index.p...-mm-at-gun-pag doesn't mention any AT guns before 47mm one. Besides, ending date in 1938 - before the war - seems strange.

The earliest AT gun, before an advent of 47mm Bohler, should be copied #289 57mm Inf-Gun (confirmed on http://www.waroverholland.nl/index.p...try-gun-6-veld)

75 47mm AT-Gun
- standard icon of Bohler is 8029 (an icon of KNIL unit 263 might remain, for photos in link below suggest, that they were used with shields in East Indies)

262 37mm AT-Gun (unused) - according to https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/theo...n-t23.html#p30, KNIL bought some not typical 37mm guns from the USA in early 1942, made by National Forge - and a small number were actually delivered before fall of Java. They were also used later by the Dutch in the West Indies.
Maybe a standard US M3 gun should be chosen as a performance pattern.
  #2  
Old July 28th, 2018, 07:03 PM

Pibwl Pibwl is offline
First Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Poland
Posts: 757
Thanks: 58
Thanked 179 Times in 138 Posts
Pibwl is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Netherlands OOB28 v.11 (2018)

Armour

03-05 Vickers Mk VI, Honey, Stuart - I couldn't find info that the Dutch used any tanks in Great Britain (possibly for training, but there was only one infantry brigade created, and it used several armoured cars eventually). Anyway, if they are kept, maybe their formations should be marked as training ones? Sure they weren't used in fighting. Same for 193 Grant I

Unfortunately, it isn't entirely clear, what armoured vehicles were used by the Princess Irene Brigade. According to a mention in an article on Dutch armour in "Batailles et Blindes" no.43, it had AEC AC III (unit 43), Staghounds (unit 47), Dingo (unit 139) and Humber LRC III (it should be added). There is even a color profile of Staghound (may be postwar?..). The Brigade landed in Normandy on 6 August 1944, so it may be assumed, that it would have received its armoured cars some time earlier (now they start from 9/44, as well as #10 Staghound AA).

However, there is a detailed composition http://www.fireandfury.com/orbats/la...hbelgorbat.pdf (apparently for wargaming), in which there is only Reconnaissance Squadron (MANEUVER ELEMENT DB01) with Dingos, Carriers, and single Humber LRC - with no real armoured cars... Similar composition is here (page 48) https://jdglasco.files.wordpress.com...garden-web.pdf
There are also no other decals on this sheet http://www.tracks-n-troops.eu/shop/i...qipar015uj44s0.

Loyd tractor could be added (confirmed on photos)

BTW: 43 AEC Mk.III lacks a formation, but its presence is doubtful..

54 Pnsrwgn M38 Com - photo of M38 should be 1073 (30055 is M36)

135-138 Humber Mk I-IV - Humbers might have been used for training, but in any way they should cease as combat machines before 8/44

I've already suggested, that there were three Morris 6x4 armoured cars from 1932, armed with Lewis guns and used for police duties https://web.archive.org/web/20180103...nd/wijnman.htm
If we add it, an icon 2845 of Polish Kubus might be OK.

148 Chevy Hvy Truck - a detail, but it would rather be GMC truck (in accordance with a photo)


Scout vehicles:
139 Daimler Dingo - they rather weren't given by the British before 6/40 (now 11/39)

316 DAF Scout Car - sure not available after 5/40 (Dingo fills the gap after that date)

It's worth to add KNIL AA trucks with .50 AAMG
https://web.archive.org/web/20160325...guntrucks.html


Aircraft

83 Fokker C.X - it should be duplicated as a fighter bomber, with one MG (they were most typical aircraft in field - "The C.X's were almost entirely used for ground-attack missions.")
http://www.waroverholland.nl/index.p...okker-c-x-c-10

From 11/35 they were also used by the KNIL.
http://kw.jonkerweb.net/index.php?op...=1&limitstart=

85, 116 Fokker C.V - they were used in Europe until 5/40.

94 Fokker T.V - since it had a semi-automatic Solothurn 20 mm gun, and was initially conceived as a "fighter-cruiser", maybe it should be also doubled as fighter-bomber?
It was "active as a tactical bomber during the May War" http://www.waroverholland.nl/index.p...t-v-bomber-t-5

95 B-25 Mitchell - photo and icon should be British (RAF 320th Sqdn) - there is a separate KNIL machine:

101 KNILB-25 - lack a space in name

As AOP aircraft, from 1/45 Austers were used https://kw.jonkerweb.net/index.php?o...=1&limitstart= Before that date maybe there should just be British Austers? (the Dutch didn't use the Kingfisher, especially in Europe - it was only ordered for the KNIl, but never delivered)

I still think, that a nice addition would be Douglas 8A-3N assault bomber (especially, if you added it to the Chinese
http://www.waroverholland.nl/index.p...=douglas-8a-3n
https://kw.jonkerweb.net/index.php?o...=1&limitstart=

MGs

275 M.25 No.1 AAMGs - "No.1" wasn't a part of name (only in case of M.18 MGs): http://www.waroverholland.nl/index.p...ht-machineguns

Weapon #96 Lewis M.25 LMG - it was designated M.20 - http://www.waroverholland.nl/index.p...ht-machineguns

That's all on the Netherlands, unless I find some new information..
  #3  
Old July 29th, 2018, 10:17 AM
zovs66's Avatar

zovs66 zovs66 is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 262
Thanks: 216
Thanked 108 Times in 65 Posts
zovs66 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Netherlands OOB28 v.11 (2018)

Dutch Vehicle Notes

During World War Two, the Dutch Army, known as Koninklijke Landmacht (KL, Royal Land Forces), served only in the Netherlands; the Koninklijk Nederlands Indische Leger (KNIL, Royal Dutch Indies Army), served in the Dutch East Indies (now Indonesia); and the Korps Marinier (Marine Corps) served in the Netherlands, as well as in the Dutch East and West Indies. The KNIL was separate from the army in Holland, and often ordered its own equipment.


25. VCL MI936(b):
The Dutch had placed an order with Vickers Armstrong for 73 vehicles of the VCL Model B 1935 light tank in 1935. At war's outbreak, fewer than 25 of these tanks had been received and were designated VCL model 36 vechtwagen ('fighting vehicle'). The KNIL's Mobiele Eenheid ('Mobile Unit'; the only armored Dutch unit in Java) had 2 platoons of 7 vehicles, with 3 vehicles in reserve. The Japanese managed to capture 15 vehicles when the Dutch surrendered and immediately pressed them into service.

26. CTLS-4(a):
In 1940, the KNIL began a major modernization program. With Europe, and the motherland itself, either actively preparing for war or actively fighting it, an alternate source of vehicles had to be found. This left only the U.S. as a procurement source, but most U.S. factories were already committed to the expansion of the American forces or to the newly-created Lend-Lease program. The search for a company with uncommitted capacity led to Marmon-Herrington and, in 1940, the KNIL ordered a total of 600 light tanks of various new models just entering production. The first to be produced was the CTLS-4 light tank. It was built in two versions, the difference being which side of the vehicle housed the driver (some sources say this was to cater to European countries whose civilian vehicles featured a right-side driver). Design and production problems delayed the initial order until just after war had broken out in the Pacific. The Japanese invaded the Dutch East Indies in January 1942. In mid-February, the first of twenty-four Marmon-Herrington CTLS-4 light tanks were delivered to the Dutch forces in Java. The tanks arrived without armament, but machine guns similar to the Browning .30 caliber were procured from the Dutch Air Force and used to equip the vehicles. The first seven crews to be trained in the tank were issued vehicles on February 27, the day before the Japanese invaded Java. The KNIL surrendered on March 8, 1942, and the Japanese occupation forces found over a dozen of these vehicles in working order and quickly put them into service.

27. Pantsenvagen M.36 & M.38:
In 1935-36, the Dutch took delivery of 12 Landsverk L180 from Sweden and gave them the designation Pantserwagen Model 36. These vehicles were used to equip 1e Eskadron Pantserwagen (lEPaw) stationed in s'Hertogenbosch. In 1938, a second squadron (2EPaw) was formed and stationed in Amersfoort. This unit was equiped with 12 Landsverk L 182 (also from Sweden and designated Pantserwagen Model 38 by the Dutch Army). Along with this shipment came 2 M.38 command vehicles, one for each squadron. Both the M.36 and M.38 were medium armored cars armed with a Bofors 37mm gun and two Lewis 7.92mm machine-guns, but their armor was thin. The command vehicles only had dummy guns. Early during the German invasion, the lEPaw operated in Gelderland and on the Grebbe Line. They were later ordered to fall back on Fortress Holland, a naturally defensible redoubt within Holland. The 2EPaw's armored cars were stationed at the airfields of Schipol (Amsterdam), Ypenburg (The Hague), and Waalhaven (Rotterdam). These M.38s, as well as the M.39s of the 3rd EPaw operated in the province of Zuid Holland (South Holland) where the majority of German airborne operations took place. When the country capitulated, some of its armored cars were destroyed by their crews, although most were captured by the Germans and put to use as police vehicles. The Danish army also bought 2 Landsverk L180 from Sweden but they are not believed to have seen action.

28. Pantserwagen M.39 "Lynx":
In 1939, the Dutch formed and equiped the 3EPaw with 12 DAF Type 3 armored cars, given the designation M.39 by the Dutch Army. Built by the Van Doome Aanhanwagen Fabriek (now known as the Van Doome Automobiel Fabriek), the vehicle mounted a Bofors 37mm gun and a 7.92 machine-gun in the turret, as well as two 7.92 machine-guns in the hull. It featured all-wheel drive and had small roller wheels, mounted on the chassis about 18" above the ground, in front of the rear tires to prevent the low sitting hull from grounding when crossing obstacles. Not all vehicles, though, were fully equipped by the time the Germans invaded. The Danish Army had purchased 3 DAF M.39s, but none saw action.

29. Marmon-Herrington III (b) Armored Cars:
The British supplied the Dutch East Indies with the Marmon-Herrington III MFF after the vehicles had finished service with the British army in the Libyan desert. Approximately 50 arrived prior to the Japanese invasion but they did so with no main annament. The KNIL improvised by mounting twin Vickers machine guns in the turrets. The Depot Vechtwagen had 10 MH III armored cars assigned to it and they were almost all eliminated on 5 March 1942 in a battle outside Bandoeng.

30. Jeep(a):
The KNIL forces had approximately 110 US Willys Jeeps in service when the Japanese invaded Java. They were issued to motorized eskadrons of the cavalry in 2 platoons (11 Jeeps each). Each platoon had a Vickers section which consisted of 2 Jeeps mounting Vickers MMG. The MG armed versions were labeled "Blitsbuggys" by the Dutch. In Java, they were found in depot vechtwagens eskadrons HQ of the KNIL with 6 Jeeps and in the Verkennende en beveiligende Afdeling (Mobile Recon Unit) which had one Jeep platoon assigned to it.

34. M3AI Scout Carr (a):
The Dutch KNIL had placed an order for 400 M3A1 Scout Cars from the U.S. but had only received 25 by the time the Japanese had invaded Java. They were armed with a Browning 12.7mm MG.

Source ASL Chapter H Vehicle Notes
__________________
ASL
  #4  
Old July 29th, 2018, 07:01 PM

Pibwl Pibwl is offline
First Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Poland
Posts: 757
Thanks: 58
Thanked 179 Times in 138 Posts
Pibwl is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Netherlands OOB28 v.11 (2018)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zovs66 View Post

30. Jeep(a):
The KNIL forces had approximately 110 US Willys Jeeps in service when the Japanese invaded Java. They were issued to motorized eskadrons of the cavalry in 2 platoons (11 Jeeps each). Each platoon had a Vickers section which consisted of 2 Jeeps mounting Vickers MMG. The MG armed versions were labeled "Blitsbuggys" by the Dutch. In Java, they were found in depot vechtwagens eskadrons HQ of the KNIL with 6 Jeeps and in the Verkennende en beveiligende Afdeling (Mobile Recon Unit) which had one Jeep platoon assigned to it.
Note, that they were Ford GP in fact https://web.archive.org/web/20160307...com/jeeps.html
The Following User Says Thank You to Pibwl For This Useful Post:
  #5  
Old September 7th, 2018, 01:43 PM
zovs66's Avatar

zovs66 zovs66 is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 262
Thanks: 216
Thanked 108 Times in 65 Posts
zovs66 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Netherlands OOB28 v.11 (2018)

With regards to ASL there is a third party company called Bounding Fire Productions (BFP) and they have this listed as Dutch/Netherlands AFV.


The KNIL used a variety of lightly armored vehicles for the defense of the East Indies. Several of those vehicles are included to expand the available KNIL order of battle.


1. Alvis-Straussler AC3D: The Dutch ordered 12 armored cars for the KNIL in 1936 from the British based company Alvis-Straussler. They were delivered in 1937. The AC3Ds were a 4x4 design with advanced 4-wheel steering and somewhat similar to the German PSW 222. One drawback was the availability of spare parts due to the limited production. The vehicles were purchased without weapons which were installed by the KNIL. The armament consisted of a coaxial .50-cal and a bow mounted 6.5mm machinegun. The AC3Ds were assigned to the cavalry regiments on Java in mixed companies with the M3A1 Scout Car.

† When using the AP To Kill Table the CMG uses the 12.7 column.


2. Braat Overvalwagen APC Armored Car: The KNIL was unable to purchase sufficient quantities of armored vehicles. They contracted the Braat Steel Works in Java to convert 4x2 trucks into armored cars. The resulting design was heavy and difficult to steer. Nevertheless the conversion provided an armored vehicle which was distributed throughout the East Indies. Some were integrated into the cavalry regiments, but most were spread out to territorial forces, airfields, and bases for defense. This was the most numerous armored car employed by the KNIL, and many were destroyed in combat. Several versions existed with varying machinegun configurations. For simplicity two are included designated as APC Overvalwagen and AA Overvalwagen.

† This CMG may not fire outside of the VCA - as signified by "CMG:VCA only" being printed on the counter.

† This vehicle is considered a half-track for mounted fire, as signified by "Mounted Fire:Full FP" on the counter.

† RF Only available in the PTO.


3. Braat Overvalwagen AA Armored Car

† See also Chinese Vehicle Note F, Allied Minor AA.
† When using the AP To Kill Table the AAMG MA uses the 12.7 column.
† RF Only available in the PTO.


4. Kanonwagen Armored Car: The KNIL Marine Battalion in Eastern Java converted three overvalwagens into 'kanonwagens'. The vehicles were converted by the addition of old Gericke Model 1885 Navy 37mm guns. They were mounted in the rear of the vehicle with a front shield. The guns had a slow rate of fire, and the crew was exposed when the turret was facing directly forward. A medium machinegun, as in the APC version, remained in the coaxial position. At least one of these vehicles engaged Japanese forces near Surabaya.

† The MA may not fire at a target that lies within the VCA and is also at the same or a lower level than the firer - as indicated on the counter by "VCA MA: VCA ≤level NA".
† CMG may only fire within VCA.
† The rear turret is unarmored when the TCA is aligned with the VCA.


5. Stadswacht Overvalwagen APC: This vehicle was designed for Home Guard/Security forces (Stadswacht) in the Netherland East Indies. They were produced in 1940 by adding double armour plates from shipyards to Chevrolet 4x2 trucks. This overvalwagen had no provision for a fixed weapon; however, several firing ports were provided for LMGs, even for the crew. The Stadswacht were to maintain order in and near urban areas, and this vehicle was specifically designed for that role. The impending Japanese invasion changed the situation and many of them were acquired for use by the KNIL.

† This vehicle is considered a half-track for mounted fire. as signified by "Mounted Fire:Full FP" on the counter.
† Passengers may fire two LMGs without losing inherent firepower


6. PLA Wagen: The KNIL used a variety of trucks with heavy AA machineguns throughout the East Indies in both the antiaircraft and ground role, generally called PLA Wagens. Most of these were armed with a .50-cal machinegun, and the Allied Minor medium truck is used to generically represent the wide assortment of trucks. They were included in the AA units of infantry regiments territorial units, and also distributed to airfields and bases for defense. At least 42 were present on Java when Japan invaded.

† When using the AP To Kill Table use the 12.7 column.
† RF Only available in the PTO.
__________________
ASL
  #6  
Old September 7th, 2018, 06:31 PM
Imp's Avatar

Imp Imp is offline
Lieutenant General
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Uk
Posts: 2,871
Thanks: 65
Thanked 347 Times in 288 Posts
Imp is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Netherlands OOB28 v.11 (2018)

Hi zovs guessing you have quite a lot of the expansions for ASL would you be willing to scan and upload the rarity sheets?
They are useful for determining what units you should be buying, quite fancy doing a campaign and rolling the dice against the rarity sheet to determine what units I use.
__________________
John
  #7  
Old September 8th, 2018, 01:41 PM
zovs66's Avatar

zovs66 zovs66 is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 262
Thanks: 216
Thanked 108 Times in 65 Posts
zovs66 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Netherlands OOB28 v.11 (2018)

Do you mea something like this:


https://1drv.ms/u/s!AiSjv0_WD-X3gZZNFCD0D8OHyBJgrQ

I can print out the lists they don't all have the best color/table looks (I have an eBook rule book).
__________________
ASL
  #8  
Old September 8th, 2018, 06:10 PM
Imp's Avatar

Imp Imp is offline
Lieutenant General
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Uk
Posts: 2,871
Thanks: 65
Thanked 347 Times in 288 Posts
Imp is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Netherlands OOB28 v.11 (2018)

Yes that’s great RF column is really what I am after so I know how common a vehicle is.
__________________
John
  #9  
Old September 8th, 2018, 09:28 PM
zovs66's Avatar

zovs66 zovs66 is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 262
Thanks: 216
Thanked 108 Times in 65 Posts
zovs66 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Netherlands OOB28 v.11 (2018)

Ok you can PM me and I can send pdf next week, don’t know if there is much interest in them other than the few odd folks that know what ASL is
__________________
ASL
  #10  
Old September 9th, 2018, 05:45 AM
Imp's Avatar

Imp Imp is offline
Lieutenant General
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Uk
Posts: 2,871
Thanks: 65
Thanked 347 Times in 288 Posts
Imp is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Netherlands OOB28 v.11 (2018)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zovs66 View Post
Ok you can PM me and I can send pdf next week, don’t know if there is much interest in them other than the few odd folks that know what ASL is
No rush and thanks, you seem to have PM turned off.
__________________
John
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2018, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.