Panzerfaust 3 IT-600

[Alpha]

I only use my own "Alpha OOB" - but late 92- early 93 seems realistic. Till then they have to use the le. Pzfaust "Lanze". Not a very good weapon at this timeframe anymore. Also it is important that the Lanze remains in service for a while (reserve and 2nd line or support forces didn´t get Pz. Faust 3´s).....Carl Gustav still in serive, but only for battlefield illumination which is not modelled in the game anyway.

Will the long range hitting % of inf. At weapons put down a bit ? They are all to acurate on long distances (depending on type over 150-250m) esp. against moving targets (IMHO).

[kikka]

Don,
thanks for implementing the dual charge infantry AT, it's been a long time request on my side. I've had enough hard times with my russian infantry trying to cook ERA equipped chinese tanks...

Francois

[pdoktar]

I totally agree with LAWs hit percentages with alpha. At 200-300 meters it´s tricky to put a Apilas even into a sitting target, especially when you don´t know the range (have to use the quite rudimentary range-guessing device in the sight). And check out the massive range of RPG-16D.. 16 hexes, come on.

[DRG]

pdoktar said:<SNIP>And check out the massive range of RPG-16D.. 16 hexes, come on.

OK, Come on......give me better info than this

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...n0546/lsn2.htm

Description/Capabilities. The RPG-16D is a reloadable antitank weapon. It is shoulder fired, either with or without the support of a bipod at the muzzle end. It has an optical sight above the tube, a single hand grip below the tube, and a conical blast shield at the rear. The 58.3-meter rocket-assisted HEAT projectile PG-16 has an increased range of 500 to 800 meters

800 metres is 16 hexes. If you've got better info lets hear it. The RPG-7v is rated on this website as having "The maximum effective range is 500 meters for stationary targets and 300 meters for moving targets. We gave it a 6 which is 300 so I *suppose* then either the PRG7V should be boosted to 10 or the PRG-16D need to drop to 10. I'll double check some of the other AT weapons but if you have any good info jump it with it. It's more useful than " come on "

Don

[Alpha]

Well my info is personal experience with the leichte Panzerfaust 44 "Lanze" - these and simmilar weapon types
are overrated in the game (RPG etc.). Maybe newer models have much better sights etc. I remember though that in certain versions from SPWAW (7.1 and before) the M9 Bazooka was a similar wonder weapon (7 range and too high heat penetration). Later they put this weapon down to more realistic stats.

Also what i find "interesting" is that how much Infantry in this game are sometimes "supermen". For example they get shelled with 120mm grenades+MG, but still they fire back with their RIFLES and MGs on the tank. IMHO infantry that comes under heavy gun fire tries to save their lives, take cover etc...and maybe shoot back with weapons that have a chance to damage the tank later (if they survive)....but that is OT. Sorry.

[pdoktar]

"Come on" meaning exactly that against a moving tank-sized target 800 meters is a HUGE distance for even a "bipod-equipped" light RPG (however heavy recoilless rifles on tripods or other heavy mounts can cope with these distances). As the game can´t distinguish between moving and stationary targets, RPG-16D has too long range game-wise, as it is used mostly against moving point targets, like vehicles. The M72 LAW has max range against stationary targets of 300 meters and moving 150 meters. And it is given a general range of 3 or 4 hexes in the game. So maybe the dropping down to 10 hexes for RPG-16D might be a good idea (it´s still 500 meters).

[DRG]

The M72 LAW is given as having the following stats for effective range

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m72.htm
-Stationary Target ...... 200 meters (660 feet)

-Moving Target........... 165 meters (541 feet)

=========

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app4/law.html The M72 had a maximum range of 1000 m (3300 ft), and effective range against a stationary target was about 10-200 m (33-660 ft).
--------------------------
http://www.olive-drab.com/od_infweap...ssiles_m72.php
M72 LAW Specifications
The effective range (beyond which there is a less than 50% chance of hitting the target) is 541 feet (165 m) for a moving target and 660 feet (200 m) for a stationary target.

I just picked three at random from a Google search. 200 for stationary and 165 for moving seems fairly standard info. That matches your 150 for moving close enough and in game terms 150 and 165 are the same.

M72 LAW 's are give generally a 3 hex range in the game. Five nations give it 4. We are still cleaning up inconsistancies in the OOB's becasue of the number of different people who have worked on them in the past. We have refined our error checking softwear and in doing so are finding all kinds of little "surprises" that are going to be fixed for the V3 upgrade.

But I digress.....

3 is the number used in 38 OOB's which represents the effective range for a moving target for that weapon. I will need to check other, similar weapons to confirm that that the moving target range has been the "standard" I suspect it's going to be a little of both but maybe I'll get lucky with this one but if that is the case 10 would be a better number to use and I will adjust all the OOB's that use it accordingly

Don

[Alpha]

The M72 LAW is okay in the game. I was mainly talking about those with much longer range and that hit too acurate. I tested the M72 (game), it is in the game quite at short range not at long range (as it should be)...other weapons are concerned.

But i stop now, this is not a complaint btw. just observation. I will take the game as it is. But there are some things that disturb me, so i voice my opinion.

[DRG]

MY point in using the LAW as an example is to establish which numbers was used for range. In the case of the LAW it was the moving target range. In the case of the rpg-16D whoever put it into the OOB first used the stationary range as the range

What I will check while I'm working with the OOB's is to do a random sampling of ranges for these types of weapons and see if the ranges have been mixed for other types as well

Don

[pdoktar]

Thanks DRG. I was just pointing this one out. You probably know my reason for this, as I myself don´t like my little APCs burning that much.. and from that range from a single RPG