WinSPMBT v 3.0 Bug?

[Suhiir]

In the patch notes I see :

12) Artillery effectiveness against armour was too high and the following changes have been made to the code
* Only units in the shell explosion hex will receive top hits (except cluster munitions)
* Penetration in the blast circle outside the shell explosion hex has been reduced for shell splinters (except cluster munitions)
* Armoured units may now suffer a suppression-only hit (hit by shell splinters message)
* HE penetration on armour now needs more overpenetration to be certain of a penetration effect. If equal, 25% will go through, if overpenetration of 6, 90%
* More chance of immobilisations (track hits) rather than kills especially if the shell size is small

Yet when playing the game (I origionally had the free version then later bought the CD and installed it over the top) I'm getting some "interesting" effects.

#1 - HE artillery does NOT supress armor in the same or adjacent hex, nor do I see any shell splinter message.
#2 - HE small arms fire DOES supress everything in the hex and adjacent ones, I see lots of shell splinter messages.
#3 - I've had a few incidents where aircraft rockets/missiles have killed multiple vehicles in a hex and adjacent ones.
#4 - AP/ATGM/Sabot/HEAT rounds supress other vehicles in the target hex but NOT the target vehicle.

Am I crazy or is my install bugged somehow?

[Mobhack]

You are probably being confused by the fix to the code to stop recce by fire. In the original games there was no replay at all, so messages could happily be "broadcast" as there was no chance the OPFOR could see them.When replay was added in SP2 (not SP1) - these were left as broadcast messages available to the other side on replay.

So we have pruned these recce by fire messages somewhat, allowing for the unfortunate fact that all SP messages are type broadcast. In general, a unit has to be spotted for a message (or things like the orange hit circles) to be shown.

Hits on unspotted units will not result in messages for your opponent to get recce by shelfire" therefore.

And if you use fast arty - then plenty of messages will be skipped by that routine as well.

Cheers
Andy

[Suhiir]

All well and good, thanks for the explanation.

That doesn't however address the "interesting" effects I'm seeing when I play.

[DRG]

Ok, lets go through it ignoring the bit's relating to shell splinter messages

#1 - HE artillery does NOT supress armor in the same or adjacent hex

.


It does for me. Even a "light" barrage will leave some tanks in the affected area in various degrees of suppression. If you think you have a point to make a save game demonstrating this is the best way to make it because every test I've run shows the game working exactly the way it should. The last one I ran had arty targeted two hexes away around the outskirts of a company of tanks, one tank per hex and after the barrage every tank ( 14 ) had suppression ranging from 8 - 14 points

#3 - I've had a few incidents where aircraft rockets/missiles have killed multiple vehicles in a hex and adjacent ones.

.

Yep. They're rockets and therefore HE. That's what HE does. The affect was more pronounced in earlier versions and has been reduced a great deal in V3. You'll still see that once in awhile though.

#4 - AP/ATGM/Sabot/HEAT rounds supress other vehicles in the target hex but NOT the target vehicle.

.

I really have NO idea what circumstances you could be seeing what you describe. Are you suggesting that if AP/ATGM/Sabot/HEAT rounds are fired at tank A that Tank B in the same hex gets suppression but the one fired at does not ?

After Hitting or missing ? A save game or demonstration scenario showing this would be most interesting. I took Warriors with AP armed Rardens and fired at 2 groups of two T-55's . I fired once at each group with the Rarden only ( AP ammo ) then ended the turn and checked the affects from the other side and only the T-55's I fired at and hit had surpression which is exactly the way the game is supposed to work

Don

[Suhiir]

I can certainly attach a saved game but I rather doubt you'll find anything in it that will help.
This has to be a problem with my main .exe file being somehow corrupt not the scenario's themselves.

As to point #3 - the super missiles - here's an example.

OOB #4 (Israel) Weapon # 215 (Popeye I)
Weapon Class : 17
Accuracy : 90
Weapon Size : 1
Warhead Size : 75
HE Penetration : 250
HE Kill : 250
AP Penetration : 222
AP Kill : 0
Sabot Penetration : 0
Sabot Range : 100
HEAT Penetration : 250
Weapon Range : 240

Sure looks like a nuke to me *grinz*

According to http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/agm-142.htm
the weapon has a warhead weight of 750 lbs / 340 kg - apparently it's enriched uranium.

As to point #4 yes, when a non-HE round (AP/Sabot/HEAT, or ATGM) is fired at Tank A in a hex, assuming it survives, it receives no supression, yet Tank B in the same hex does.

As I said it's got to be a problem with the main game .exe somehoe being corrupted. I gather you've never had a case like this before. I suspect a clean install is probably the only solution.

[pdoktar]

Well, maybe a 340kg HE warhead will kill any tank with a direct hit. However the HE kill ratio of 250 is certainly too large.

[JaM]

Suhiir: Enriched uranium? Why should anybody make that? it would be extremly dangerous to aircraft crew and land personel...

[Suhiir]

JaM said:
Suhiir: Enriched uranium? Why should anybody make that? it would be extremly dangerous to aircraft crew and land personel...

*chuckles*
It's used to make nuclear weapons.
The comment was ment to imply the Popeye I might be a tad overrated.