New Jotun theme: Muspelheim

[Azhur]

Source: Muspelheim

Muspelheim - "World of Searing Flame"

"The Muspelheim is the very opposite of Niefelheim's ice giants. These giants adore fire and worship mainly their fire giant god, Surt. Their whole region is covered by flames and thus trespassing is more than a challenge."

So Muspel is greatly a mixture of Abysians' heat and Jotuns' giants. Altough there are already two other Jotun themes available, I see no reason to have a third one. Here are some ideas for the theme:

- Like Abysians all Muspels have the heat ability
- Boulder throwers replaced by Brimstone throwers
- New pretender god: Fire Giant, Surt (fire elemental strong)
- This theme uses purely fire so evocation is worth of investing
- National spells: Summon Fire golem and Comet
- Gem income 6F
- Even more costly troops than Niefel's

[ August 04, 2004, 17:32: Message edited by: Azhur ]

[Boron]

yeah in d&d there are fire + ice gigants too

there is already a spell in dominions 2 : warriors of muspelheim iirc a lvl 8 or 9 enchantment spell which makes your units fire immune iirc .

again i post my idea

perhaps illwinter could include some well balanced player mods as additional themes / nations in 2.13

pvk's amazon empire + thilocks draconian mod so far are good candidates .
your fire gigant jotunheim may be a 3rd one if you make a mod with this yourself

[Vicious Love]

Seems kinda like Abysia, only much, much less versatile.

[Cheezeninja]

Less versatile, but with a heavy fire income they could quickly alchemize mini-SC's. I see no reason for them to be more expensive than nieflheim though... Water + Death > Fire IMO.

[archaeolept]

fire giants weren't made of lava or anything, so i see no reason why they should radiate heat. as well, i don't see the genie as being especially thematic...

how about loki as a pretender? in effect, he went over to the giants' side. perhaps stealthy, death magic, heat and cold immune...

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Boron:
perhaps illwinter could include some well balanced player mods as additional themes / nations in 2.13

pvk's amazon empire + thilocks draconian mod so far are good candidates .
your fire gigant jotunheim may be a 3rd one if you make a mod with this yourself

What makes you think those mods are well balanced for MP games?

To the best of my knowledge, they have received little use in multiplayer games, thus they can hardly be said to be well balanced - they haven't been tested for balance.

Most of the mods that I've seen are in fact very unbalanced, and I only know of one MP game in which the different mods are being played.

From what I've seen there, the latest Version of Ashikawa is pretty decently balanced, but most of the other ... 5 mods in that game are overpowered, noticeably so even in SP games.

Before any mod was brought into the game as a theme, I'd expect a _lot_ more playtesting and balancing to go on, to avoid the "Oh! Who would ever have thought of _that_! Wow, that's great! I want that theme because it is so powerful!" syndrome.

It's a lot of work to balance in-game modifications and additions.... Now, maybe Illwinter's beta testers have been looking at the mods for balance - but since the mods are someone else's IP, Illwinter can't simply tweak them as needed. Intellectual Property right complications also arise, because someone's mod would be getting bundled with a commercial, for-sale, product.

A couple of companies have done this, but they've tended to be larger companies, with lawyers to deal with just such complications. (Think maps and mods being distributed with/for Quake, HalfLife, etc.)

Edit : For that matter, how can you seriously propose a mod that hasn't even been created yet, hasn't even had proposed troops / commanders / etc, as a "well balanced mod"?

[ August 04, 2004, 16:11: Message edited by: Cainehill ]

[Azhur]

This is my second time with modding (unfinished warcraft mod), but wish me luck and give some tips to make this theme as balanced, accurate and realistic as possible. EVERY SUGGESTION ON THIS THREAD WILL BE NOTIFIED.

Archaeolept: About Surt

Ok he's not a genie, but a fire giant. Loki's a good idea also, but since Surt is truly the one for Muspelheim, I like him better for the theme.

[ August 04, 2004, 17:29: Message edited by: Azhur ]

[Agrajag]

A pretty easy way to balance a mod is by looking at illwinter's mode guidelines in their mod page.
The only flaw is that troops that are balanced that way will be really boring because they'd have to be humanoids to fit the cost/attack/defense/strength/protection scheme of the guidelines...

[Thilock_Dominus]

You could use Loki as a hero who can join you. He is known of the god of trickster but also god of fire.

You could use the 'person' called 'Lue' which means fire. I don't know if you read the story where Utgaards-loki tricks Tor some challenging? Loki (Not utgaards-loki) should eat alot of food against 'Lue'...Loki lost the eating contest to Lue because noone can consume as much and fast as 'Lue'


best regards
Thilock *an asátruár*

[Azhur]

Originally posted by Thilock_Dominus:
You could use Loki as a hero who can join you. He is known of the god of trickster but also god of fire.

You could use the 'person' called 'Lue' which means fire. I don't know if you read the story where Utgaards-loki tricks Tor some challenging? Loki (Not utgaards-loki) should eat alot of food against 'Lue'...Loki lost the eating contest to Lue because noone can consume as much and fast as 'Lue'


best regards
Thilock *an asátruár*

Loki as a hero.. why not? And Lue is the ultimate supply-consumer. Not bad at all.

I'm thinking of making muspelheim a bit different in the ways of endurance. These are giants who are
literally too hot to keep any kind of armor, so they trust on their high hp rating (40? 50?). Some are capable of wearing armor, but it must be made of steel, otherwise it would burn down. That'll make protection value high, but their encumbarance is incredible high (pick a <5) and defence is also much lower. Balancing this will be somewhat difficult, but test and try is the way to go...

[ August 05, 2004, 05:59: Message edited by: Azhur ]