MP: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!

[SciencePro]

Here is the smoking gun proving ossa is the meta-gamer not me:

Originally Posted by ossa

Well... Zeldor did a good job then.

Ermor is *the* evil nation in late era games - once they grow over a certain point they cannot be stopped. I've committed myself to stop him in setsumi has I'm the nation with most H3 priests.

Nevertheless, you broke the NAP and intend to carry that war on (which will probably kill me if you do the right thing, as my empire is spread out among so many islands).

That means I cannot trust you. How can I know you will do better in another game? Maybe some player will talk you into something too - so I'll have to rounce our NAP in Zebra immideately.

Sorry, you're new to all this, but a treaty I cannot rely on is too dangerous to keep

[Zeldor]

Huh, I feel a bit bad now too.

I had good relation with R'lyeh since the beginning of the game. I had absolutely no idea he is working with Marignon - I rather got an impression original player would be interested in fighting MAri together, especially looking at the geography. I had no idea they are fighting AI Atlantis together [as it's hard to make alliances against AIs really]. I did see Marignon grabbing former R'lyeh provinces. No idea if they were conquered for some time by AI Atlantis and then took by Marignon, or was it direct attack on weakening and staling R'lyeh [I was creating backup plan in case R'lyeh gets volatile]. I have no idea if Marignon made any contact with new R'lyeh player or if he offered him back the water provs he took. I simply asked R'lyeh for help with Marignon, which at that time seemd to be gaining fast on me and going for victory. SciencePro did a great job as new owner of R'lyeh, doublign provinces, greatly increasing capabilities, income and research. So it is a rant that R'lyeh has at least 2x better player now, one that can really play the nation?

[SciencePro]

Originally Posted by Kuritza

Rlyeh just thwarted the only player who tried to do something. He doesnt do that to win, because he wont stand the chance against Ermor either. Metagaming is such a metagaming.

Sigh, of course I am doing it to win. And what I did has nothing to do with what happened in the other D3 game.

I am a noob to dominons but, from watching Survivor (the tv show) it seems to me that a good strategy when there are 10-15 players is to ally with the strongest one. Then when there is just 3-5 left you gang up on the strongest.

Zeldor started PM'ing me and was the only one to contact me. It seemed highly likely that i would get farther in the game working with him than trying to fight him and getting immediately crushed.

I'm working with him now, but if i'm still around later in the game and he is still the strongest, then obviously I will have to join an alliance against him.

The only sense that I am metagaming is that I am trying to be political and win. Obviously if i was truly RP-ing Ry'leh i would just sprout gibberish and attack randomly. But that doesn't seem like a very good strategy.

[SciencePro]

Originally Posted by Zeldor

So it is a rant that R'lyeh has at least 2x better player now, one that can really play the nation?

hehe thanks for the nice comments but, as ossa points out he's been kicking my butt in the battles so far. It was easy to climb up the graphs at first because the other player had just been staling. But i obviously have a lot to learn about winning fights.

[Juffos]

The Survivor-technique won't work in this particular game due to Ermor's overwhelming position. Their growth follows the geometric model. Unless you challenge them early on, you lose.

And you lost.

[SciencePro]

Is Ermor really that overpowered? How come they don't win every game then? Shouldn't they get a nerf or something?

It seems to me that Zeldor is winning because he is good politically. He was the only one to contact me for example.

He only has 70 provinces out of a total of over 300. If 3-4 of the other strong empires ganged up on him i bet he would go down easy. If not then then D3 is hilariously unbalanced.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but in this game Ossa appears to have taken on Zeldor more or less single-handedly. So of course he is losing and to be the only one to join him in that quixotic quest would be suicide. But don't go blaming me - if you want to beat Zeldor then try to set up an alliance against him.

So far exactly no one has PM'd me suggesting to ally against Ermor. Or really PM'd me at all to suggest anything for that matter. But yet multiple people have seen fit to complain publicly that i am helping him. That doesn't seem like an effective strategy to me.

[Kuritza]

Well, working for such an overgrown LA Ermor isnt the best idea.... Even LA Rlyeh may have troubles stopping him once he has grown THAT large.

P.S.
Sorry Zeldor, I just had to say that. )))))

Originally Posted by SciencePro

Is Ermor really that overpowered? How come they don't win every game then? Shouldn't they get a nerf or something?

It seems to me that Zeldor is winning because he is good politically. He was the only one to contact me for example.

He only has 70 provinces out of a total of over 300. If 3-4 of the other strong empires ganged up on him i bet he would go down easy. If not then then D3 is hilariously unbalanced.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but in this game Ossa appears to have taken on Zeldor more or less single-handedly. So of course he is losing and to be the only one to join him in that quixotic quest would be suicide. But don't go blaming me - if you want to beat Zeldor then try to set up an alliance against him.

So far exactly no one has PM'd me suggesting to ally against Ermor. Or really PM'd me at all to suggest anything for that matter. But yet multiple people have seen fit to complain publicly that i am helping him. That doesn't seem like an effective strategy to me.

Ermor isnt winning all games, because usually everyone gangs upon it. Immediately. Kill Ermor first, ask questions later. Because there will be no 'later' if you dont stop that plague.
And, well, sometimes LA Ermor (and LA Rlyeh too) is just banned from LA games.
Despite that, LA Ermor has the most victories in the late age.

And yes, you're right, Zeldor is good politically. And Zeldor is just good. And he is LA Ermor.

[Zeldor]

Everyone was talking so much about Ermor all the time that I decided to try them in a game where it's not banned. And I really think people are overestimating it. It's not bad early game [unless you face nation with good archers], then it gets weaker [as anti-undead weapons are easy to come by]. And it can be easily owned by R'lyeh, even much smaller one [it's quite obvious why]. No recruitable troops, no recruitable mages, bad research, bad diversity...

Anyway, if someone wants to give up, I can accept it I'm just doing my best to win and it's how you should play that game Do you really think that you'd just stop Marignon, when he will have all research done, so many elemental royalty, artifacts and 20-40 additional forts from my lands and that gem income? Ossa should not complain thjat people are not helping him - they are smart enough to know that they'd just help him win. And while we two are fighting and bleeding, they can gain up [mostly Man and Abysia] and get a fighting chance. And R'lyeh trying to grab Marignon lands is a logical consequence of geographical location. Marignon and Atlantis caps are really inside his lands, slowing his movement, hurting dominion and loweoring income. If he got Marignon he'd be able to attack me from many many points and be a major player. He wouldn't have that chance if he decided to attack me together with MArignon.

[Kuritza]

Originally Posted by Zeldor

No recruitable troops, no recruitable mages, bad research, bad diversity...

Why have recruitable troops when you get a crapload of them for free?
Bad diversity is not just Ermors problem. Look at LA Man, for example. There are always ways to go around it - I am 95% sure you've managed it

Originally Posted by Zeldor

Do you really think that you'd just stop Marignon, when he will have all research done, so many elemental royalty, artifacts and 20-40 additional forts from my lands and that gem income?

Sure. Its much easier than trying to win an attrition war against Ermor.

But I am sure we wont win if Rlyeh will let YOU claim Marignon's land. Now, it might make sense for Rlyeh to ally with Ermor, and then have a little 1vs1 with him once everyone else is dead. But since in Setsumi you're much bigger than Rlyeh already, and he's rather new, thats not gonna happen.

Not to mention that this scenario is a perfect reason not to let both Ermor and Rlyeh in one LA game...

[rtyffg]

Originally Posted by Zeldor

Huh, I feel a bit bad now too.

I had good relation with R'lyeh since the beginning of the game. I had absolutely no idea he is working with Marignon - I rather got an impression original player would be interested in fighting MAri together, especially looking at the geography. I had no idea they are fighting AI Atlantis together [as it's hard to make alliances against AIs really]. I did see Marignon grabbing former R'lyeh provinces. No idea if they were conquered for some time by AI Atlantis and then took by Marignon, or was it direct attack on weakening and staling R'lyeh [I was creating backup plan in case R'lyeh gets volatile].

The reason why i have not fought Marignon is simple - failure at both pretender creation and early game research, which made R'lyeh just not ready to fight and needing time to adapt. The only thing seems not quite diplomatic happened is that nap presumes warning before attack, which was absent.

Originally Posted by Zeldor

SciencePro did a great job as new owner of R'lyeh, doublign provinces, greatly increasing capabilities, income and research. So it is a rant that R'lyeh has at least 2x better player now, one that can really play the nation?

That one seems correct, looks like i haven't understand R'lyeh ways yet.