Balance Issue? (From a total newb)

[sevenwarlocks]

Hi everyone,

I've owned Dominions for about a week, and I'm still learning the basics (though I've played every other 4x game).

I've played several games now, using many different stratagies. I usually do well for a time, but then every nation declares war on me and they wear me down. No diplomacy? Seems odd.

Last night I played Ermor for the first time. I had no idea what it was like, but fortunately I gave myself 10 Dominion and 10 Death magic - along with an imprisoned pretender.

Once I figured out what was going on, I expanded rapidly. Then I kept expanding rapidly. They I wiped out every other nation and won the game before my pretender even woke up.

Granted, this is a newb perspective, but this seemed like an H-Bomb tactic that nothing could really stop. Enemines can banish you, true - but it makes no difference because you're producing and attacking with undead in such huge numbers.

So, hi everyone. Hopefully I'll be around long enough to laugh at what a foolish newb tactic this was.

[Frozen Lama]

Yeah, LA ermor is pretty rigged in SP. the computer can't handle them. in MP its a little different although its still pretty ridiculos

[DakaSha]

Originally Posted by sevenwarlocks

Hi everyone,

I've owned Dominions for about a week, and I'm still learning the basics (though I've played every other 4x game).

I've played several games now, using many different stratagies. I usually do well for a time, but then every nation declares war on me and they wear me down. No diplomacy? Seems odd.

Last night I played Ermor for the first time. I had no idea what it was like, but fortunately I gave myself 10 Dominion and 10 Death magic - along with an imprisoned pretender.

Once I figured out what was going on, I expanded rapidly. Then I kept expanding rapidly. They I wiped out every other nation and won the game before my pretender even woke up.

Granted, this is a newb perspective, but this seemed like an H-Bomb tactic that nothing could really stop. Enemines can banish you, true - but it makes no difference because you're producing and attacking with undead in such huge numbers.

So, hi everyone. Hopefully I'll be around long enough to laugh at what a foolish newb tactic this was.

You really have to keep in mind that this game is all about MP... i wish so bad that the ai in SP was better

but hey MP is absolutely awesome

[Omnirizon]

nations aren't balanced, even though this is an MP focused game. LA Ermor is often banned from MP games, so is LA Ryley and sometimes EA Hinnom. Other superpowers are Mictlan all ages, Sauromatia, Ashdod and Gath, and some iterations of Vanheim, Marignon, and Pythium.

Despite all that, for not making all nations carbon copies, balance is pretty good. Aside from those named above, and with some weak-considered-nation exceptions, most nations are relatively well matched.

For SP, once you've learned a few tips and tricks and how to use magic, you can mop up any number of opponents with even the weakest nations on even 'impossible' setting. The AI is just really terrible.

Don't bother with playing SP to 'learn the basics' because you really won't learn anything useful. Jump into MP and watch see how other players put stuff to use and learn from that; its the only way. The only reason to do SP is to test initial expansion strategies.

[Calahan]

I personally think you can learn a lot from SP games, but only if you are disciplined with your approach to them. I actually played SP games for 18 months before jumping into MP games (for various reasons), but after the first few SP games, I stopped trying to win directly against the AI, since that was just too easy, and made each game about challenging myself, and learning more about the vast array of spells and mechanics in the game.

One idea I came up with was for each new game I played, I'd pick some of the spells that I currently didn't know the effects of, and then would force myself (script wise) to cast them in every battle. If I couldn't cast them in a particular battle, I wouldn't allow myself to fight. Sounds odd, but I found it a great way to force yourself to learn about every spell in the game.

Another idea was to ban myself from recruiting any troops at all (especially tough as MA Ulm!). As that forces you to learn how to build thugs, highlights just how long high prot/def guys can hold the line, and teaches you that a handful of mages can take down entire armies with the right spell combos.

So there is a wealth of game experience to learn from SP games if you approach them correctly, and not just the basics. I know I was very competitive in my MP games right from the off as a result of the SP games I played (with only one of those games being a newbie game).

[llamabeast]

I don't think LA Ermor is considered overpowered at all anymore (in MP, that is). They are sometimes banned just because they can be a bit aggravating, not least because even if you do win you just get a barren wasteland.

By opinion of them in MP is that they are exceptionally attention-drawing (you can't ignore legions of undead on your doorstep, whose very dominion is annihilating your population), but not very likely to win.

[Gregstrom]

Originally Posted by llamabeast

By opinion of them in MP is that they are exceptionally attention-drawing (you can't ignore legions of undead on your doorstep, whose very dominion is annihilating your population), therefore not very likely to win.

Corrected.

[llamabeast]

Yeah, I think you're right there Gregstrom.

To the original poster: yep, undoubtedly they are powerful in Single Player, since the AI can't work out the counters. They can be good fun as an AI opponent, since it gives a very Defeat-The-Dark-Lord feel to a game. You could play as one of the human nations (e.g. T'ien Ch'i) 1 vs 1 against Ermor and have quite a dramatic game I reckon.

[BesucherXia]

LA ermor has already been greatly nerfed. Once its population are not dying so quickly. Same with LA Rly.

After a couple of MP, I learned the balance of Dominions is more dynamic
rather than statistic: as you grow stong, you will face stronger resistance from the alliance of other players.
Yes some nations will be doomed in a fair 1v1. But in actual games the powerhouses are often wiped out instead just because they are more feared. And many experienced players prefer picking up underdogs just because thats fun.

[sevenwarlocks]

Thanks all. I'm getting the idea that skilled players know how to put together SC's and thugs that are powerful enough to make the waves of undead less of an issue. That must be what I need to work on.