.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

ATF: Armored Task Force- Save $8.00
War Plan Pacific- Save $8.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > Illwinter Game Design > Dominions 2: The Ascension Wars

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old January 15th, 2004, 12:38 AM
apoger's Avatar

apoger apoger is offline
Second Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 410
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
apoger is on a distinguished road
Default Two new MODs from me

I have made two new mods. I just sent them off to Illwinter and Sunray, so they should be posted shortly.

#1 Alexander's Scales - Dominion scales balanced the way I like. I think it goes a long way towards addressing issues with Order-Luck.

#2 Healing Gods - I wish there was a way to pray afflictions off of gods. After all we can pray them back to life. Since we don't have that, the best I can do is give all gods the recuperation ability. Pretend the people are willing their god back to health.


If you find typos or issues with the mods, or just want to comment, please feel free to offer your help and input.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old January 15th, 2004, 12:51 AM
Saber Cherry's Avatar

Saber Cherry Saber Cherry is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Crystal Tokyo
Posts: 2,453
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Saber Cherry is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Two new MODs from me

Quote:
Originally posted by apoger:
#2 Healing Gods - I wish there was a way to pray afflictions off of gods. After all we can pray them back to life. Since we don't have that, the best I can do is give all gods the recuperation ability. Pretend the people are willing their god back to health.
...I agree. It's annoying that you can be in a situation where your regenerating wyrm is useless to you (blind and crippled), and you are better off killing him and calling him back. But unless recuperation has varying degrees, I would not want to play with it on all gods. Earth-10 Cyclops with recuperation? That's close to the ultimate supercombattant... (chassis, I mean)

I don't know... a recuperating Wyrm is also superpowerful.

...I think recuperation is too powerful by default. Maybe if a pricey con-4 item gave recuperation, that'd be OK, or if 20 prayer points could eliminate an affliction. But this may be a recipe for disaster.

And then, aren't you the big advocate of SC pretenders?

[ January 14, 2004, 22:52: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]
__________________
Cherry
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old January 15th, 2004, 01:04 AM
apoger's Avatar

apoger apoger is offline
Second Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 410
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
apoger is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Two new MODs from me

>...I think recuperation is too powerful by default. Maybe if a pricey con-4 item gave recuperation, that'd be OK, or if 20 prayer points could eliminate an affliction. But this may be a recipe for disaster.


I'd prefer many other solutions, however I work with what I got.


>And then, aren't you the big advocate of SC pretenders?

User/Abuser yes.
Not an advocate. I wish that they had never existed. But as long as they do, everyone should be prepared/informed.


The affliction recuperation is strong, but I don't see it as terribly unbalancing. Besides nobody is forcing anyone to use it.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old January 15th, 2004, 01:31 AM

SurvivalistMerc SurvivalistMerc is offline
Second Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 419
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
SurvivalistMerc is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Two new MODs from me

I use mostly rainbows, but I sympathize with folks who have a "useless" SC as a result of afflictions.

20 prayer points, however, are disturbingly easy to come by. If you have 5 indie priests praying for 2 turns, you got those points. I would prefer a year of recouperation (12 turns) in the SC's home province with orders to "heal affliction" during which the pretender can't even research.

If somebody's pretender has been out of commission for a year, I'd say they deserve to come back better. Uncrippled. Unfeebleminded. Or whatever.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old January 15th, 2004, 01:42 AM
NTJedi's Avatar

NTJedi NTJedi is offline
General
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: az
Posts: 3,069
Thanks: 41
Thanked 39 Times in 28 Posts
NTJedi is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Two new MODs from me

Apoger...
any chance we'll see an XL map from you ??
Please...
__________________
There can be only one.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old January 15th, 2004, 02:41 AM
apoger's Avatar

apoger apoger is offline
Second Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 410
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
apoger is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Two new MODs from me

>20 prayer points, however, are disturbingly easy to come by.

Agreed. If I had my way I'd make it 40 points, but only from prayers at the gods location.

The recuperation is hard to judge, I'd estimate that it's a 25% chance per turn of losing an affliction. It's not nearly as nice as being immortal.


>any chance we'll see an XL map from you ??
>Please...

I've done a good deal of work converting the Dom1 map "Fantasy North America". I'll polish it up eventually.

By "XL" I assume you mean extra large? Not sure. Depends on my mood. I'm not an artist, and the map work takes me time.


Right now I'm working on mods to improve light cavalry (which I think are deficient) and up the precision on mages. Is there any interest out there for such things? Let me know.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old January 15th, 2004, 02:45 AM

Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Two new MODs from me

Alex, why don't you lay out the readme of the changes you implemented in the Balancemod? Just to see which direction you went in.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old January 15th, 2004, 03:01 AM
apoger's Avatar

apoger apoger is offline
Second Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 410
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
apoger is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Two new MODs from me

>Alex, why don't you lay out the readme of the changes you implemented in the Balancemod? Just to see which direction you went in.

I'd rather players try the scales before arguing about them.

However this is a copy of the README file I included with the mod. Enjoy.


Alexander's Scales


This is a mod that tweaks the games dominion scales.

It is my design philosophy that the game scales should be as balanced as possible. Players should have a hard time making choices between which scales will best represent their nation/style. Furthermore I feel that the scales should be important to the players. They should have levels of potency that make the players strongly desire positive scales and deeply fear negative scales.

It is my opinion that the current scale dynamic has many weakness that allow players (including myself) to exploit the system for extra nation points. I'm not talking about sculputing the scales for efficiency with certain nations, what I am talking about is scale and combinations that allow more value than they should (in my opinion). I think there are a number of players out there that are unhappy with the current Order-Luck dynamic, even though we all enjoy using/abusing it. I am also unhappy with the potency of Production/Sloth and Growth/Death. In my opinion neither of these scales does enough to the game facets that they control. I don't like players casually taking Sloth-3 or Death-3 because the penalty is unimpressive. I want players to sweat for each +1 scale and gulp every time they contemplate taking -1.

In essence, I want the scales to have better balance and more impact.

If I could get into the game code I would make all kinds of changes.
However I must use the tools provided, and so I beg you forgiveness if my alterations seem like a bit of a kludge (they are).

Please keep in mind that this mod is just my interpretation of how things should be. If you disagree and want to ignore it, by all means go back to the standard game. It's your game, play the way you want.


The following are my reasonings, interpretations, and descriptions of this mod's scales;


ORDER/TURMOIL

Let me start by saying that I was a fan of the Order/Turmoil system used in Dom1. I liked things better when this scale was a modifier to unrest rather than a direct gold adjuster. I understand why Illwinter changed things as the Order/Unrest/Patrol dynamic was problematic. Unfortunately I feel that the changes have created a host of replacement issues.

As things stand Order/Turmoil is really a tax modifier. I can accept and work with that. However let's call it what it is. This is really a "Financial efficiency" or "Prosperity" scale. It's the tax scale. The money scale. The gold scale.

I can live with that. In my mod, Order/Turmoil is the scale that represents your nations relationship to finances. It is the only scale that does this. Production and Growth now deal with their own issues and no longer intrude on financial matters.

In a land of Order +3 the nation has a clearly defined and well enforced set of monentary policies. The government mints coins and/or prints script which is backed by resources or confidence.There are merchant guilds. Lending institutions. Money changers. Insurance companies. Banks. Trade and commerce are cultivated and revenues are created.

In a land of Turmoil +3 there are no clearly defined financial policies. Transactions are made with lumps or weights of precious metals, gemstones, spices, or even chickens. Trade exists, but there are no standards or efficiencies. Everyone simply has what they own, and if they want to trade they barter.

The way the mod represtents this is by giving Order/Turmoil a 15% gold revenue modifier per level of scale.

Order/Turmoil has nothing to do with luck. At least not in my mod. If you want to play with your luck, then modify your luck scale.


PRODUCTION/SLOTH

Production and Sloth modify your nations resources. This scale no longer has anything to do with money, as that is now the purview of Order/Turmoil. Production/Sloth represents the natural resources your nation has, and your peoples ability to acquire and utilize them.

In a land of Production +3 the nation has near limitless natural resources. Workable wood, stone, and metals are easy to find, and the artisans of the land are skilled in using these resources.

In a land of Sloth +3 resources are rare or of poor quality. Workable resources are hard to acquire and the craftsmen are poorly skilled.

The difference between a wastland that has little resource and a land that is overflowing with goods is pretty significant. I don't think this has been modeled well by the standard rules. In my mod the difference has been expanded in order to make production attractive and sloth miserable.

The way the mod represtents this is by giving Production/Sloth a 30% modifier per level of scale.


HEAT/COLD

I am an ordinary human living in NYC. If I found myself wisked away to Siberia it would lower my efficiency pretty significantly. By the standards of the current system I would suffer a 15% penalty. That's it, 15%. This doesn't come close to the penatly that I think beings would suffer from trying to survive in temperatures that are dangerous to them. What about an Abysian (lava humanoid) at the north pole? A huge 30% penalty? The Abysians get 120 free nation points due to heat and the absolute worst penalty for trying to live on a glacier is 30% ?

Not in my mod. People that try to survive outside their comfort zone should suffer. SUFFER!

The way the mod represtents this is by giving Heat/Cold a 20% modifier per level of scale.

Haven't been paying much attention to heat/cold? Well start! It makes a difference now!


GROWTH/DEATH

I want to make two things very clear. First is that population/armies/scales are all abstractions. Second is that we are playing this game in a world of high fantasy, where gods walk the earth and exude divine power in an attempt to alter reality. Please do not involve yourself in foolish discussions about how many babies were born in small medieval towns during realistic timeframes. Growth scale is an abstraction awash in a sea of other abstractions. Leave it alone and let it do it's work.
This scale no longer has any direct connection to money, as that is now the purview of Order/Turmoil. However this scale does affect both gold and resoucres indirectly since it influences population.

I find the Growth/Death scale in standard Dominions to be too slow. In my opinion this scale should be impressive. This isn't natural growth/death, as it's being propagated by gods.

The way I see it, players that invest in growth scale are cultivating their population as an investment for the future. Players that suffer death scale are draining the life from their population in order to "cash out" nation points at the expense of their lands health.

In a nation of Growth +3 the land is lush with plants and animals. Fertility is incredible and births are common. People migrate great distances to enjoy the overflow of life.

In a nation of Death +3 the land is barren and lifeless. Seeds will not take root even in good soil. Births are rare, and people and animals dream of fleeing to better places.

The way the mod represtents this is by giving Growth/Death a .7% modifier per level of scale.

For the living, growth is wonderful and death is horrible. The scales should be equally so.


LUCK/MISFORTUNE

This scale has undergone the most scrutiny. I am not at all happy with the standard luck dynamics. I'd change a lot if I could, however I have done the best I can with the tools available.

First, no scale affects the quantity of luck. Everyone gets the same amount of luck. The only question is it's quality. I found that this was important in order to balance out the affects to this scale which otherwise becomes too chaotic.

My intention with this scale is to make it as viable an option as the other scales. I want players to crave luck and fear misfortune. Balance and potency, that's my motive. A nation with Order-3 Misfortune-3 should be rich, yet plagued by horrific circumstances. A nation with Turmoil-3 Luck-3 should be dirt poor economically, yet graced by incredible fortune. Order-3 and Luck-3, wow rich and fortunate! Turmoil-3 and Misfortune-3 would be a nightmare for the living. Positive scales, good. Negative scales, bad.

In a nation of Luck +3 you can turn over a rock and find lost artifacts. Treasure chests float onto your shores. Hero's and troops show up in the nick of time. The people look forward to the next day because every days a great day in a land of luck.

In a nation of Misfortune +3 the people live in a state of despair. Every day is a new tradgedy. The temple burns down. Gold has been stolen. And now the barbarians are attacking. Life is unfair!

The way the mod represtents this is by giving Luck/Misfortune a 20% modifier per level of scale.

Yes 20%. You crave luck. You fear misfortune. You have no idea which scales to choose since they are all important. Good, I've done my job.


MAGIC

Grrrrr... I'll mod magic as soon as the tools to do so exist.


Hope you enjoy the mod.

-Alex Poger
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old January 15th, 2004, 03:06 AM

Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Two new MODs from me

Well considering how you, yourself are so critical of IW's scales and are vocal about it, giving them the same opportunity shouldn't be all that bad. I'm sure most will try them in the light they are presented. Though I'm worried a little about your recuiperation Mod, I'll try your scales with an open mind before I make a decision the same as I would with IW.

Edit: Just one thing I wanted to note for your Readme. An Abyssian trying to live on a Glacier is a 60% Loss (From Heat 3 to Cold 3 is 6 steps). In your mod it's a 120% Loss.

Edit: Just one other note before I play it, initial impressions if you will. Did you test your Mod with force turmoil, forced misfortune and other 'unchangable' variables and come up with conclusions around them? (Specifically I'm thinking of Barbarian Kings, Force Turmoil of 2, with no other scales that give any sort of income, they had better just head home because they won't be able to pay upkeep let alone recruit new units)

[ January 15, 2004, 01:15: Message edited by: Zen ]
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old January 15th, 2004, 03:16 AM
Graeme Dice's Avatar

Graeme Dice Graeme Dice is offline
General
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,013
Thanks: 17
Thanked 25 Times in 22 Posts
Graeme Dice is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Two new MODs from me

Quote:
Originally posted by apoger:
In essence, I want the scales to have better balance and more impact.
I'd like to see better balance, but less impact from the scales, so that it might be normal to take at least 9 in one path on a pretender while still having a fairly high skill in other magic paths.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2024, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.