Death Knight Army

[Ice_Sickle]

I'm in the late stages of a Mictlan game and fell in love with Death Knights which I'm having my Father Illearth summon. I'm trying to figure out ways to get a bunch of casters summoning those guys and am having a rough time.

There aren't a lot of 2E 2B mages out there. Obviously a pretender can do it and the Father Illearth (which is unique).

Every nation can summon fallen angles and earth empower them and then give them some earth boots (can do this with any blood mage of any nation as well).

Or go the other route which probably makes more sense and get an earth mage and blood empower them and then give them a robe of thorns or something.

Machkaka's Black Sorceress has 2E and a ? so get a B there an you are home free. But having no good flow of blood mages rounding up a healthy supply of slaves might be a problem.

Ulm has both the E and the B but in different places. Round up some blood to empower the smiths and off you go.

So that's what I've come up with. Any other ideas?

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Shark Sandwich:
So that's what I've come up with. Any other ideas?

One eighth of Vanheim's dwarves come with blood 1 as well. Unfortunately, there is a bit of a lack lack of both a blood/earth nation and an astral/earth nation amongst the various themes.

[Boron]

pangenea's pans have NNNEE*
the pandemoniancs have NNNBB .
so you have already bloodhunters . although they are expensive . and if you are really lucky ( 1/8 possibility ) your pan gets blood as random pick . the 1 missing blood to summon 1 death knight / summon can be easy aquired via e.g. blood thorn .
in latergame the 5 blood 2 earth for infernal crusade shouldn't be too hard to get then too .
1 brazen vessel , 1 blood thorn , 1 blood empowerment , 1 armor of souls , 1 lucky random blood pick for the pan = 5 blood 2 earth .


but since pangenea is no as good blood hunter as mictlan or abysia i think it would be better to take it on your pretender and summon the father illearth with him .
then these 2 can cast in late game infernal crusade all the time .

[Cohen]

Abysya could get a random pick Warlock, having him an earth boots or a blood stone and summon Demon Knights.

But is usually easier to get them with Infernal Crusade (even if Blood 9 ...) but in long standing games.

However I prefer far more Devils or Stormies ... more versatile and mobile (and Stormies aren't stormable, and with a staff of storms in they become fearful fighters for nn equipped armies).

[Boron]

belphegor the demon lord has 4F 4B and 4E so he is a lategame uniquecaster for demon knights too .
finally 1/64 of your summoned spectres which have 2 random picks will get one blood and one earth pick . but there the odds are just too bad .

does anyone know if there are perhaps rare indep mages which fit for this role ?

a very very lategame suggestion : wish for several belphegors and GoR them . they should all have the basic magic skills of the original belphegor than too .

[Cheezeninja]

I think the combination of an easy Earth/Blood nation was left out on purpose, because such a combination is extremely powerful en masse. Just rush construction, build some dwarven hammers, mass produce earthstones for cheap, cast forge of ancients, mass produce soul contracts for really cheap, reap the massive benefits...

Pangea is probably your best bet for getting this started early since they have built in bloodhunters, and Pans have a chance of getting both earth and blood.

[ July 16, 2004, 23:59: Message edited by: Cheezeninja ]

[Boron]

perhaps this would be a good idea for a future theme .
EEBB mages .

cause for every other similiar blood summon there are in most cases 2 nations there :

devils : abysia / marignon DF / mictlan
frost fiends : mictlan / jotunheim
cross breeding : pangenea / mictlan

storm demon is though a similiar candidate :
vanheim (standard) can get the 2nd needed blood pick only with 1/8 th possibility on their very expensive vanadrotts.

or they need to empower their vanjarls +1 blood .

but they can't natural cast it .
with pangenea it is similiar for demon knights but there the odds are much worse than for vanheim .

perhaps the designers thought that storm demons and death knights are the "best" demon troops and better than the above listed devils and so on .

vanheim + pangenea have further in common that it is much harder for them to get a blood economy going .
pangeneas pandemoniacs are just very expensive .
vanheims bloodhunters have only blood 1 and are very expensive . the SDR is a must for them.
and a +1 blood item doesn't hurt too .

but vanheim has already plenty of other strenghts like powerful air magic , possible bless strategies ...

a 4th pangenea theme where the pans are replaced through blood 2 earth 2 pans would perhaps be nice to fill the niche

edit : didn't see your posting already when writing this Cheezeninja

sounds very rational why there should be no EEBB nation / theme

[ July 17, 2004, 00:17: Message edited by: Boron ]

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Boron:
[QB]vanheims bloodhunters have only blood 1 and are very expensive . the SDR is a must for them.
and a +1 blood item doesn't hurt too .

A +1 blood item has an identical effect to a SDR when blood searching. It will take 15 turns for even the cheapest +1 item (brazen vessel forged with a hammer) to pay for itself, which is not a very good use of your blood slaves.

[Boron]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Boron:
[QB]vanheims bloodhunters have only blood 1 and are very expensive . the SDR is a must for them.
and a +1 blood item doesn't hurt too .

A +1 blood item has an identical effect to a SDR when blood searching. It will take 15 turns for even the cheapest +1 item (brazen vessel forged with a hammer) to pay for itself, which is not a very good use of your blood slaves.

---

that's a good thought .
it is a bit better for a blood 1 mage though or ?
because with blood 1 you have 40% chance to find blood , with blood 2 which a vanjarl will have with SDR for blood hunting purposes it is 80% and with 3+ 100% or ?
so it will be something like 10-12 turns but i never thought it that way

with abysia and the like i of course only forge a SDR

[ July 17, 2004, 00:45: Message edited by: Boron ]

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Boron:
because with blood 1 you have 40% chance to find blood , with blood 2 which a vanjarl will have with SDR for blood hunting purposes it is 80% and with 3+ 100% or?

The chance is 10% + 40%*Blood. A blood 2 mage has a 90% chance, as does a blood 1 mage with a SDR.