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  #1091  
Old September 29th, 2020, 12:40 PM
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Default Re: MBT's

I found an Icon (2441) that was not being used ( much to my surprise )that fit's the definition of "good enough" about as good as you can get for that vehicle and it's dimensions. A new custom one would hardly be noticably different
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  #1092  
Old September 29th, 2020, 04:35 PM
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Default Re: MBT's

I'll try and condense things down for you.

NORINCO apparently began developing a 8x8 APC in the 1990s; and the first prototypes started doing road testing in 2006.

In 2008, NORINCO went-semi public and promoted them for export as VN1.

A year later, in the 60th anniversary of the People's Republic of China Military Parade in 2009; a lot were seen and it was later disclosed that the 162nd Division in the Jinan Military Region got a few of them in June 2009; and generally many sources gave it the designation ZBL-09. (aka Type 09) family.

But then we have a Chinese language source that says they're actually designated ZBL-08s; and in other sources, I have seen references to "Type 07" (which may have been for a preproduction prototype spotted in 2007).

Wikipedia lists it as the Type 08

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_08

And it has spawned a huge amount of subvariants (look at the Wiki)

What I think is causing the confusion is that NORINCO is "rapidly iterating" the basic design -- and is willing to change the chassis/layout more than a typical western company would for each variant.

Known confirmed chassis designs within the family:

IFV Variant (ZBL-08 IFV, PLL-05 Mortar Carrier, PLL-09 SP Howitzer, ZTL-11 Assault Gun, Assault Breacher [mine plow], Bridge Builder, Armored Recovery Vehicle)

NOTE: I have seen two different designations for the 105mm Assault Gun variant -- ZTL-09 and ZTL-11. Apparently the Chinese Marine Corps got the first mass production assault guns in 2017, and then in 2020, the Regular Army got their assault guns.

APC Variant (taller crew compartment) (ZSL-08 APC, Armored Cargo Vehicle)

Armored Recon Vehicle (Two versions, one appears to use a slightly modified IFV chassis, while another version uses the APC chassis).

Command Variant (even taller crew compartment) (Command Vehicle, Communications Vehicle, Armored Ambulance, NBC Recon Variant, EW Vehicle)

Anti-Air Recon Vehicle (Unique Chassis Variant)

Engineering Vehicle (Unique Chassis Variant)

Other export sales of this chassis family are:

ST-1:
Basically, an export-only variant of the ZTL-11 Assault gun using a 105mm L7 clone. Nigeria had bunch of them delivered in 2020, along with VT-4 MBTs:

https://www.deagel.com/news/n000019796

BEIJING, Apr. 10 -- The first batch of 17 military vehicles consisting of VT-4 main battle tanks (MBT), ST-1 wheeled tank destroyer and two types of self-propelled howitzers bought by the Nigerian Army (NA) from the China North Industries Corporation (NORINCO) arrived at the Apapa Ports on April 8, 2020. The NA made this emergency purchase to strike Boko Haram Terrorists (BHTs) in northern Nigeria.

There's a export version 155mm Howitzer on the chassis (SH-11) but nobody has bought it yet.

Last edited by MarkSheppard; September 29th, 2020 at 04:48 PM..
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  #1093  
Old September 30th, 2020, 02:37 AM
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Fallout Re: MBT's

Don are you thinking along the same lines that I am to avoid redundancy that maybe we have 2 Chinese variants TYPE 08/09 APC (With 12.7mm MG) and TYPE 08/09 IFV (With the turreted Chinese 30mm AC)?

We can do the same with the VN-1 as well since the sites I've found for both, refer to the export version of each as the VN-1.

We did this with the T-72B3/B4 and nobody's complained about that in the intervening years since we included it in the game.

Just a thought and it might lessen the workload by a couple of "degrees" especially as I posted the differences between the 2 are inconsequential.

PAKISTAN: Has only confirmed plans to induct the VT-4.

From JANE's, "No details were provided as to when the tank will be officially inducted or how many units have been (or will be) ordered." That puts this tank at least a year out.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...in-battle-tank

Another for the above Pakistan I believe I posted on but is in my MBT Folder is now inducted, the Al-Khalid-I MBTs. Have tracking this and originally thought induction would during the 4th "calendar" Qtr. of this year or latest, 1st of 2021.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...-khalid-i-mbts

GERMANY: More on the LEOPARD 2A7V with some "projected" dates. The process has already started on the conversions to the type. I'm looking at first unit FOC in/by OCT. 2021.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...ttle_tank.html


Good Night!!

Regards,
Pat
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Last edited by FASTBOAT TOUGH; September 30th, 2020 at 11:12 AM..
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  #1094  
Old September 30th, 2020, 08:32 AM
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Default Re: MBT's

No , what I was thinking was just make it the 09 and leave it at that but I suppose TYPE 08/09 works too
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  #1095  
Old September 30th, 2020, 01:12 PM
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Exclamation Re: MBT's

Quote:
Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH View Post
maybe we have 2 Chinese variants TYPE 08/09 APC (With 12.7mm MG) and TYPE 08/09 IFV (With the turreted Chinese 30mm AC)?
Just to make this more confusing and contradictory that it already is.....

http://www.military-today.com/apc/zbl_09.htm

says in one part "Main gun 30 mm cannon"

and further down

" Infantry fighting vehicle, fitted with a smaller turret and 25 mm cannon.

and if you want to see a rather awsome 3D rendering.....

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/yybPR
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  #1096  
Old September 30th, 2020, 03:06 PM
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Default Re: MBT's

Sounds like the USMC plans a fire support variant of the ACV with a 30mm cannon as well.

Currently ZERO information on such a vehicle existing beyond the "We'd like X." stage.

If they continue a 25mm (comparable with LAV-25 ammo) seems more probable unless there are plans to up-gun the LAV which I've heard nothing about.
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  #1097  
Old September 30th, 2020, 06:33 PM
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Default Re: MBT's

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRG View Post
Just to make this more confusing and contradictory that it already is.....

http://www.military-today.com/apc/zbl_09.htm

says in one part "Main gun 30 mm cannon"

and further down

" Infantry fighting vehicle, fitted with a smaller turret and 25 mm cannon.
Or the writers of military-today saw one-off versions marketed and got very confused.

For example, NORINCO has shown off a VN-1/Type 08 prototype with a 30mm turret similar to that on the ZBD-03 Airborne IFV. (I think this is where the confusion comes from)



But what was actually selected for production by the Chinese military for the Type 08 8x8 IFV was a variant of the Type 05 Amphibious IFV turret.


ZBD-05 Amphibious IFV used by PLA(N) Marine Corps


ZBL-08 IFV in parade

Notice the very similar gun layout/turret layouts?

Photos of variants we know are in service are:



122mm Self Propelled Howitzer



35mm SP-AA

You can see how they haven't hesitated to modify the chassis for the SPAA version for easier drivability and logistics (loading ammo), since it won't be in direct line of sight combat.
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Last edited by MarkSheppard; September 30th, 2020 at 06:45 PM..
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  #1098  
Old September 30th, 2020, 06:59 PM
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Default Re: MBT's

And the Basic APC version appears to have a taller roof in the troop compartment

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/moder...-09/ZBL-09.jpg
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  #1099  
Old September 30th, 2020, 07:27 PM
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Default Re: MBT's

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRG View Post
And the Basic APC version appears to have a taller roof in the troop compartment

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/moder...-09/ZBL-09.jpg
Venezuela bought the basic APC export VN1 version a few years back:

VN1 APC in venezula - 500 kb JPG

Decent top view of the APC variant there.

Also shows the size difference between the old BTR and the new generation of wheeled APCs quite well.

EDIT:

Decent top view of the ZTL-09 / ZTL-11 Assault Gun:

500 kb JPG of Assault Gun

Assault gun in PLA(N) Marine Corps Colors

Last edited by MarkSheppard; September 30th, 2020 at 09:18 PM..
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  #1100  
Old October 1st, 2020, 01:11 PM
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Fallout Re: MBT's

You'll see the 25mm version of the TYPE-09 if you scroll through the picture gallery from the same ref. I posted earlier and has since been noted. Or as I just checked the bottom 2 pictures on the right.
"This ZBL-09 has a crew of three and capacity to carry 7 to 10 troops."
http://www.military-today.com/apc/zbl_09.htm

The TYPE-08 which apparently proceeded the "09" by a year (2008) has what we might consider a "standard" looking 30mm Auto Cannon vice what looks like a "Gatling" type on the "09".

This below is where the VN-1 is developed from the VP-10.
http://www.military-today.com/apc/vp10.htm
Also you see the pictures to the right, in this case the top 3.

You'll see it's mounting a standard looking 30mm Auto Cannon vice what the "09" is carrying. Though the turret for the TYPE 08 appears to be the same or "slightly" different look on the front, the VP-10 30mm looks to be the same one mounted on the TYPE-08. Also what's in common with the TYPE 08 and VN-1, is the following...
"The baseline VP10 armored personnel carrier is operated by a crew of 2, and carries 12 dismounts.

Note the difference as I posted above for the TYPE 09.

And my Chinese supplement w/APC types below the tanks. What I didn't like seeing is the foreign operators of countries we have in the game, other then Pakistan, that might not have any of these at all.

GERMANY: LEOPARD work has started.

Late Post and major sinus headache, time to go!

T -10 Days to go!

Regards,
Pat
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Last edited by FASTBOAT TOUGH; October 1st, 2020 at 01:26 PM..
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