But do you really like SC in dominions2 ?

[WraithLord]

I agree about life drain. Being as it is now (drain life+fatigue) has following effect in MP games.
Players rush to summon SCs, then mass produce wraith swords/blood thorns to equip them.
It's very rewarding and efficient tactic.
So much that it has become a no brainner.

I think that taking away fatigue drain from drain life will have a real significant impact reducing SC tactics.

I also think that national troops and battle summons should be made cheaper. But this is only because I like epic battles. I want to see more armies made of varied troops that complement each other, backed by support units (mages. priests).

Currently in my typical MP game I have any number of small armies (usually one-four SCs) as my offensive force.

edit: wonder what are the devs planning to do about this on DOM-III

[Graeme Dice]

Saber Cherry said:
Are you sure about that? I thought tramplers were supposed to trample until AP ran out, then use weapons... is it bugged?

Yes I'm sure, and no, they never use their weapons unless the creature they are attacking is their size or larger.

[Graeme Dice]

I have absolutely no problems with SCs as they currently stand, as they are vital to prevent the game from devolving into a zerg rush of "whoever has the most troops wins".

[Oversway]

The point about having life drain still stands, even if you remove trampling from the equation.

I have absolutely no problems with SCs as they currently stand, as they are vital to prevent the game from devolving into a zerg rush of "whoever has the most troops wins".

I'd say that SCs are not the only thing to prevent such a problem. Area effect spells, battle field summons, trample, artillary spells, etc. prevent this as well.

[The Panther]

Ice devils do not have a trample attack. If they did, then they would never be used as a solo SC.

I personally like SCs. But I HATE the idea of a single SC taking on an infinite number of troops because of life drain. SCs ought to complement your army, not substitute for it. An equivalent sized army fight, one with a couple of SCs and one without, now THAT would be a cool battle. I would certainly bet on the army that contained the SCs even without life drain in the equation, which is only proper.

Somebody made a comment above about the risk of sending in an SC to battle. They do die, that's for sure. But SCs survive a lot more often when accompanied by a real army.

I truly believe all that is really needed to balance SCs is a method to ensure that ANY SC dies to pretty much any medium sized army when going solo. Fatigue is likely the proper answer to making that happen.

[BigDaddy]

Can you add encumbrance to the life stealing weapons? If so we could run some tests to see how much is fair.

[Yvelina]

Saber Cherry said:

Not true. Regeneration and reinvigoration work once per turn, while life drain works once per strike. [snipety-snip]

Which part of 'shift the balance of power' did you not understand? Of course, the king of the hill will change! The ice devil you described will fall in power (but sticking him with boots of trampling already ruins him)

On the other hand, there are units which do not use fatigue in hand to hand combat, there are units that have such huge amounts of HPs that they regenerate 30-40 hps with one item and build-in regeneration, and there are units that do not get hit in combat, even when it is a clash of SCs armies that lasts the full 50 turns.

Some units match all three of the above. If we were to forbid the life drain items in a game, I assure you that it will still be won with supercombatants.

By the way, a few weeks ago I watching my boyfriend's arch and ice devils one-shot killed by supercombatants without lifedraining weapons. I think that once he saw that happenning, he used mages to take care of the opposition. A supercombatant is no match for three well-scripted mages. An army of pure-melee supercombatants is no match for a similary priced army of mages. The only type of unit that gets the short end of the stick is non-commander, melee units. But in an age where the gods come down from Heaven to fight, how much would a dude with a short sword accomplish?

[BigDaddy]

I was wondering about Life Drain SC's versus SC's, even maringal ones with big swords like, Frost/Fire Brand(or armor piercing/negating), which are cheap, 1 handed, and do huge damage.

[liga]

Panther ... i really like your answer ...

that's true! SC are good just as "hero" in an army (and theyr are, of course, funny) ... what I don't' like is just have a SC that kills armies alone!

... anyway, making sure that no one could really get rid of all fatigue alone (with items and spells) could help a lot!

good play
Liga

[Yvelina]

I would have never believe I'd write that, but I mostly agree with Panther. The best battles are these in which well equiped supercombatants and a retinue of well-scripted mages face off. I have saved three battles like this, and sometimes watch them and draw conclusions. I think we posted one or two here.

Personally, I am not too worried about SCs taking on armies and winning. If one rushes for SCs, she will get low-end SCs by turn 10-15. By that time, good nations can come up with a mage-based anti-SC squad. Not all nations, of course.

As for those who try, on turn 30, to fight SCs or mage squads with vanilla national troops, I have no sympathy for them. Cavarly charges against tanks have been tried, and I have no sympathy for those who got slaughtered in them. The Russians claim that Gen. Dovator had quite a bit of success using partisan cavalry tactics in WWII... but even if that's true, it's only the exception that confirms the rule.