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  #1  
Old February 9th, 2020, 02:09 PM

luigim luigim is offline
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Default T90 in Syrian Army - and some other stuff

Hello.

#1 There are multiple (really a lot) sources and photos that say T90's are in Syrian army.

Apparently, there are both T90A's and first gen T90's (only a few, the majority of the photos have the double Shtora so T90A). For the start date I'm thinking about 2016..

https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ...ical_data.html

https://vestnik-rm.ru/news/oborona-i...azca-1992-goda

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article...-battle-tanks/

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/syrian-army-recs/

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article...d-khan-touman/

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article...-moving-video/

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...es-syria-26202

https://defence-blog.com/army/syrian...th-rebels.html

https://www.israeldefense.co.il/en/node/32428

https://english.iswnews.com/10917/ma...-another-t-90/

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena...ided-missiles/

https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/ht.../20180624.aspx

https://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivil...oldier_posing/

This is a really useful tank against Turkey.. preparing for quick battles

#2 Some sources note that even what is in game called T72BM (T72B model 1989) is somewhat in service in Syria. Here in photo. But I'm note so sure like I am about T90's

https://topwar.ru/90005-smi-v-siriyu...kie-tanki.html

#3 Even BM30 Smerch was seen in Syria

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena...m-the-shadows/

http://www.military-today.com/artillery/smerch.htm

https://defence-blog.com/army/in-syr...-launcher.html

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article...ss-north-hama/

https://syria.liveuamap.com/en/2019/...t-in-a-village

and you can do a little Google research about this.

#4 MSTA-B in Syria

http://www.military-today.com/artillery/msta_b.htm

https://rg.ru/2017/06/12/foto-v-siri...ih-gaubic.html

https://www.armyrecognition.com/weap..._32804161.html

https://ruslanleviev.livejournal.com/45737.html

https://syria.liveuamap.com/en/2016/...the-t4-airbase

Wiki page about Syrian Army has a lot of info on the equipment the russians sent to syria

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equipm..._note-tanks-21

Last edited by luigim; February 9th, 2020 at 02:27 PM..
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Old February 9th, 2020, 04:52 PM
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Fallout Re: T90 in Syrian Army

The T-90/T-90A would belong to the Russians. already documented that they've been in a combat "support" role much like what happened in the Ukraine.

The following is from SIPRI/Time Frame 1990 - 2018:

"Transfers of major weapons: Deals with deliveries or orders made for 1990 to 2018
Note: The ‘No. delivered’ and the ‘Year(s) of deliveries’ columns refer to all deliveries since the beginning of the contract. The ‘Comments’ column includes publicly reported information on the value of the deal. Information on the sources and methods used in the collection of the data, and explanations of the conventions, abbreviations and acronyms, can be found at URL .
Source: SIPRI Arms Transfers Database
Information generated: 09 February 2020


Supp/Recip (R) ordered No.Des WeaCrip. WeaOr. YearDev. Dev. Comments
Russia
R: Syria (10) T-90S Tank (2015) 2015 (10) Probably second-hand; possibly aid
(25) T-62 Tank 2016 2017 (25) Second-hand; probably aid; T-62M version
(10) BMP-1 IFV 2017 2017 (10) Second-hand; probably aid; BRM-1K version
(10) BPM-97 APC (2014) 2014 (10)"

So Syria has 10 T-90S tanks as of 31 Dec. 2019. I covered this extensively in the MBT Thread last year on my submissions. I also believe they are recovered into the Fastboat Patch Thread now.

There are ONLY 2 versions of the T-90 MBT available for export. They are AGAIN ONLY the T-90MS (Russian version now in service the T-90M.) and the T-90S (As modified for the customer, as those submissions showed.) (Russian version is the T-90A.)

The above search was limited to the "Armored Vehicle" section, obviously this is the only one needed.

Their methodology:
https://www.sipri.org/databases/arms...es-and-methods

Direct Quote from Sources section (As I tire of having to defend this source over the years.)

"4. Sources
The Arms Transfers Programme uses a wide variety of sources when collecting information for the database.

The one common criterion is that the sources are open; that is, published and available to the general public.

The sources include:
Newspapers and other periodicals

Monographs and annual reference works

Press releases, annual reports and other information published by arms producing companies

TV broadcasts

Blogs, discussion fora and other Internet publications

Defence white papers and similar policy documents

The United Nations Register of Conventional Arms (UN Register
National reports on arms exports and imports (UN items here and below are treaty driven. Mine)

Defence budget documents and parliamentary records

The most frequently used sources are commercial periodicals specializing in military issues such as Defense News and Jane's Defence Weekly (You to pay for these. Mine), newspapers and official governmental publications and the UN Register.

The SIPRI Arms Production Project web page provides links to many arms-producing company web sites.

Estimates
Sources often provide only partial information, and substantial disagreement between them is common. Order and delivery dates and the exact numbers (or even types) of weapons ordered and delivered, or the identity of suppliers or recipients, may not always be clear. Exercising judgement and making informed cautious estimates are therefore important elements in compiling the SIPRI Arms Transfers Database. If new information is published about transfers of major arms since 1950 this will be used to update the database. (I've seen this but rarely, usually it deals with delays or order changes. Mine)"

Those highlighted sections taken together and supplemented with the rest, are better then any of us will have access to as a whole.

But as most know I use this in times when web sources are limited on equipment or as a check I what data I've been able to find on my own.

Those people are a hell of a lot smarter then me (You're right, only marginally so! ) But I'm smart enough not to single source any submission but, I don't under value this source because , again, they have a lot more access then we do.

Governments help pay to keep these folks going. Also at times they seek "advise" from them as well.

It won't hurt to noise around the website as I have, you'll get a better understanding of why I use them at times to check my work i.e. x-country doesn't announce FOC, I can make a very educated guess on that based for the delivery dates SIPRI and using TRADOC's and others online sources to narrow the FOC down.

When this data is finally released, by said x-country which could be a year or more later, I've been fairly close generally.

My day off/burned things in the yard/smell like fire/smoke and CINCLANTHOME insists I take a shower before dinner (Just because she already did after she came in. ) so much for just "hanging out".

Regards,
Pat
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Last edited by FASTBOAT TOUGH; February 9th, 2020 at 07:39 PM..
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Old February 9th, 2020, 07:36 PM
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Fallout Re: T90 in Syrian Army

Here's a good one on their T-72 tanks dating back to the 1970's with some of the current local upgrades made to them. Overall they seem fairly useful against RPG's not so good against modern ATGW's (Or I would think, modern tank fire.). You have to admire "soldier ingenuity" on the fly.
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/modern/syria/t-72_mahmia

And note the "honesty" statement they "plugged" into the article of the above ref., I like ownership of, well, anything you do in life.

A good article about Syrian T-90S tactical usage and loses. And also it serves as a good example of why I fully read my sources before making up my "calculus" for a piece of equipment.

I was just going to post it as is without comment, but, in hindsight, I'll just give it you straight. Note the transitions from the T-90A to T-90 back to the T-90A and this happens a couple of more times, until in the last set of paragraphs the author from this "think tank" finally must have "engaged" his brain, to report the correct tank which of course is the T-90S.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...e-reason-77961

This is why I love OOB work so much , though I've seen this type of thing before, thankfully with as much data that's "come across my desk" over the years, it's a small percentage overall.

Thank God!

Great shower (Better then even on the "boat"!) followed by a wonderful dinner! I'm a lucky guy!

Regards,
Pat
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Old February 10th, 2020, 11:55 PM
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Default Re: T90 in Syrian Army

can I assume then that all of these Russian weapons are only used by the Russians and not the Syrians?
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Old February 11th, 2020, 11:38 AM
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Default Re: T90 in Syrian Army

Isn't that what the "Allies" button on the purchase screen is for?
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Old February 11th, 2020, 01:33 PM
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Default Re: T90 in Syrian Army

The popular front podcast has an episode on Syrian armour and its use since the outbreak of the Syrian civil war:

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcas...424269343&mt=2

Somewhat related to the topic, I don't remember the podcast mentioning T-90s but it's been a while since I listened to it...
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Old February 11th, 2020, 01:41 PM
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Fallout Re: T90 in Syrian Army

They have 10 T-90S tanks as I posted in my first response to this thread, along with the T-62 tanks (And APC's) from the SIPRI site.

They operate other Russian equipment outside of the context of this thread, such as Pantsir-1/orS1 and one of the missile systems , can't remember which.

Gotta Go!!!!! The Grind calls.

Regards,
Pat
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Old February 12th, 2020, 03:06 AM
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Fallout Re: T90 in Syrian Army

It bugged me that I knew that Syria had over a thousand T-72 tanks and when I did my SIPRI search they weren't there.

Where were they?

Turns out, they were in SYRIA all along but not from Russia.

I would figure this out on Post, and just like our game, those people at SIRPI were smart enough to have a place called the "Soviet Union" as well.

So from SIRPI search criteria Soviet Union to Syria 1970-2018 (Yes I know it ended on Dec. 31, 1991)/Armored Vehicles.

These are the results:
(300) T-54 Tank (1967) 1967-1972 (300) Second-hand
(200) BRDM-2 Tank destroyer (1968) 1969-1972 (200) 9P133 version (with AT-3 missiles)
(1000) BRDM-2 Reconnaissance AV (1968)1969-1975 (1000)
(300) BTR-152 APC (1968) 1969-1971 (300) Second-hand
(300) T-55 Tank (1968) 1969-1972 (300)
(25) MTU-20 ABL (1969) 1970 (25)
(100) BRDM-1 Reconnaissance AV (1970) 1970-1971 (100) Second-hand
(150) BTR-60PB APC (1970) 1970-1971 (150)
(80) PT-76 Light tank (1971) 1972-1973 (80) Second-hand
(500) T-62 Tank (1972) 1972-1974 (500) Possibly incl from Czechoslovakian production line
(400) BTR-50 APC (1973) 1973-1975 (400) Possibly Second-hand
(500) BTR-60PB APC (1973) 1973-1975 (500)
(100) T-34-85 Tank 1973 1973-1974 (100) Second-hand
(400) T-54 Tank 1973 1973-1978 (400) Second-hand
(400) T-55 Tank 1973 1973-1978 (400) Possibly second-hand
(2300) BMP-1 IFV 1977 1977-1989 (2300) possibly from Czechoslovakian production line
(600) T-55 Tank (1978) 1979-1981 (600)
(1250) T-72 Tank (1978) 1979-1989 (1250)
(300) T-62 Tank 1982 1982-1984 (300) Second-hand
100 BMP-2 IFV (1987) 1987-1988 (100)

This covers all Armored Vehicles transactions, along with those from Post #2, from 1970 to 2018/Soviet Union & Russia/to Syria.

Hopefully this closes the loop here.

Regards,
Pat
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