Help Me Kit Out Jomon

[Stryke11]

I'm taking the new Jomon for a test drive. I've been away from the game for a short while. While they still seem as weak as ever they are a lot more fleshed out, thematic, and fun. I wish all nations had this level of attention put into them (I would love to see what MA Ulm's special underwater only troops would be).

I have read the nation guides in the guide section, but they all seem written before the changes. My main question, as the title implies, is what items to use to make the most of my national summons.

I just read a guide by I think Baalz on effective thugging and a lot of it resonated with me as I tend to spend many times over what the thug is worth to equip them. Sure they do ok, but in the bigger map 2 hour turn SP games I play just organizing all that takes forever. I would like some opinions on what is the best bang for the buck.

To start with, the ujigami and kenzoku. These guys are basically ethereal twin brothers. Uji has priest levels and Ken has awe. Since Uji loses one priest level when leaving his home (way too many Jomon troops have this hindrance) Ken is by far the winner. I can't imagine ever summoning the other, especially as the paths are the same.

Now, bargain basement, I have been sending out my kenzoku's for crowd control with a horror helm and one of the reinvig boots. That still keeps their cost manageable. The sword they come with is actually pretty nice, so I didn't think spending the gems on a 'brand and a shield (vine or the air shield one) was warranted, under the bang for buck scenario. So, community, how do you kit our your kenzo's, and do you ever use Uji's?

Oh, I should mention I'm using the latest CBM. I wish there was a CBM "manual" that gives you magic and troop stats and pricing that were changed.

Dai Tengu - Thunder strike out of the box. Mostly I send 'em out naked, but if I can afford it I'll give 'em a robe of shadows. Being as an air booster costs almost as much as they do, that seems wasteful. I can see how a storm staff can help them in certain situations, and it would allow the storm power buff, but it seems really niche. I try to give them gems and have them arrow fend, but that's such micro because I have to leave the gems with a spy or non magic commander since otherwise they'll waste them all. Any other fun DT kits I could try?

Tatsu's - I dunno, these guys look like they can rock the party that rocks the par-tay, but in practice I am unable to use them optimally. They have the HP, but only two misc slots if I recall and so itemizing them is problematic. As far as magic they get a random pick twice (so EE, AA, NN, etc) which is nothing my national mages can't do. They seem like a waste. Any other ideas?

Yama-no-kami seems cool but I only used one of them since they can't leave their home without being hit by a big nerf bat. I had him guard the one chokepoint in my game and he did ok, but he isn't NEARLY good enough as his placement on the research tree and horrifying nerf would suggest. My feeling is that if you have a unit that must stay in one area that unit better be the almighty God of that one area, defeating whole armies by themselves. Otherwise why bother? It's just for fools like me who like thematic immersion.

Kitsune seems ok, but just as a spy - magic is nothing my recruitables can't do. Jigami, Mori-no-kami, and Kaijin all seem pretty useless.

Ninjas - I haven't actually used any recruitable ninjas, but I did get two of the free multihero ninjas and sent them out with robes of shadows and boots of strength (as shriuken is strength based). They seemed a little light for me. Would it be better to equip a bow? Are their other more effective assassin accouterments that I am missing? I can afford to spend some more on these guys since they are so rare.

Shura's and Dai-Oni's - I have summoned these boys but haven't put them to use. What are some synergistic kits for these guys, remembering again that I play SP and as such use them mostly for crowd control.

Oh, as an unrelated question, I only recruit Aka-Oni Samurai. I just don't see any situation where any other troop in the roster has an advantage that outweighs the low prod cost and the mapmove 2. The o-ban seem cool, but just a few more prot points don't seem worth it. Anyone know something I'm too oblivious to see?

Thanks! Sorry of this is long. My brain starts spewing and off it goes.

[kianduatha]

Kenzokus for crowd control are still not bargain-basement; you use death gems for the horror helmet, and if you have death gems to spare you might as well just summon a shura. Think of a shura as a kenzoku with the horror helmet and boots of the messenger already equipped. It doesn't have awe, but well...it's 6 death gems. Your proposed Kenzoku is 8 astral, 7 death, 3 nature, and 3 mage turns.

Tatsus are absolutely useless. If you want something that flies, get a Ryujin from an underwater fort instead.

With Dai Tengu, don't forget to script them to cast Teaching Sign first to boost his air up to 4.

[Squirrelloid]

Jigami is mostly a way to turn n into RPs early, since its conj 0 in CBM. Later on he'll be a low opportunity-cost forger for cheap N gear. May or may not be worthwhile, but I'd consider summoning a couple.

Nushi are your entrance to death magic, so don't overlook them. (Also, the reason you don't need to put death on your pretender!)

Ujigami vs. Kenzuko: remember Kenzuko having H1 allows them to self bless, whereas Ujigami can't. Ujigami cost earth gems while kenzuko cost pearls, which is a mark in the favor of Ujigami. I'd be tempted to use them in matched pairs so the kenzuko can bless them both while the Ujigami provides some better defense with his awe and keeps cost down since you only spent e on him.

You could seriously play Jomon as a bless nation and rush conjuration. Bonus: one of your sacreds is pretty decent anyway.

Speaking of: Units
Aka-Oni are good, but they aren't the only unit worth hiring.

Go-Hatamoto have the 8 damage no-dashi instead of a katana, and so are substantially better at killing heavily armored targets. They are only mm1, however, but they definitely have a place. He also has heavier armor than the aka-oni, so will be better at absorbing archer fire and cavalry charges.

For real heavy armor killing, your go-to unit is the Yamabushi. In addition to being sacred (so can benefit from a bless, incidental or major), he has a glaive giving him a 10 base damage weapon. Stack on top of that a good attack rating and he'll carve up most opposition. As a bonus, he's relatively low resource cost compared to go-hatamoto and aka-oni. Since he's cap only, in a pinch you can use the glaive wielding samurai for your glaive needs.

Ashigaru are cheap chaff and also have a length 5 weapon. Note master shugenja have decent odds at N2. Panic spam + length 5 weapons could equal a lot of repelling fun. I could certainly see hiring them, especially since you can mass them quickly.

Your cavalry are also quite decent, although they probably will see more use to fill specific needs for flankers or lance-strikers than as something you build normally.

Useless units: katana samurai, samurai archer, o-ban

The katana samurai is strictly worse than the aka-oni. The o-ban is strictly worse than the go-hatamoto (including in r cost, which is weird). The samurai archer costs too many resources for an archer unit, and is significantly worse stat-wise than the melee units you'll use, so can't even shine in a hybrid roll (unlike dai-bakemono for Shinuyama).

[Stryke11]

See, this is beautiful. Those are great ideas (though I think you got Kenzoku and Ujigami mixed up, it's the Uji's with the holy). This is why I don't play MP, I lack the creative spark to make it work.

As for the Shura, yeah, I should have more of those guys. It's just the Kenzoku looks so cool!

I didn't know the teaching sign did that. The signs are actually quite confusing to me. I built a bunch of monks and had them running around using their signs and it seemed in most cases nothing happened. Like the earth sign is supposed to be an insta kill but it never killed anything. Meditation sign seemed to me to remove fatigue so I scripted it after 4 rounds of casting but I think the game skipped over it. Are there other clever uses I'm missing? Any the monks themselves can use or only other summoned priests like Tengus?

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Stryke11

I didn't know the teaching sign did that. The signs are actually quite confusing to me. I built a bunch of monks and had them running around using their signs and it seemed in most cases nothing happened. Like the earth sign is supposed to be an insta kill but it never killed anything. Meditation sign seemed to me to remove fatigue so I scripted it after 4 rounds of casting but I think the game skipped over it. Are there other clever uses I'm missing? Any the monks themselves can use or only other summoned priests like Tengus?

The W and N signs are the best ones. Hint, put them in communions as masters using the items that do so.

One of them is reinvigoration (with no gem cost), the other is PotS (with no gem cost!). I can't remember which is which offhand...

For more fun, make an S2W1N1 Omnyoji (or however you spell that) your prophet.

[Maerlande]

You should do nothing but build samurai archers and forts. A fort in every province is the perfect solution to Jomon. Ignore the rest of those noobs suggesting strategy. They are irrelevant.

[zzcat]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

For more fun, make an S2W1N1 Omnyoji (or however you spell that) your prophet.

IMO making a Master Shugenja with air path your prophet is a must for early expansion. If you need meditation Sign for communions just buy a fivefold monk with w and give him a crystal martix.

Tatsu has only 1 misc slot so it's almost impossible to make it a thug. Mapmove 3 flying is good, but I personally will never waste gems to summon it.

Basically I think all new summons have limited usefulness but the UW units are interesting. Crab general is a good thug chassis and cheap as hell. Ryujin looks like an inferior verion of king of the deep with mapmove 4, etc.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by zzcat

IMO making a Master Shugenja with air path your prophet is a must for early expansion. If you need meditation Sign for communions just buy a fivefold monk with w and give him a crystal martix.

Tatsu has only 1 misc slot so it's almost impossible to make it a thug. Mapmove 3 flying is good, but I personally will never waste gems to summon it.

Basically I think all new summons have limited usefulness but the UW units are interesting. Crab general is a good thug chassis and cheap as hell. Ryujin looks like an inferior verion of king of the deep with mapmove 4, etc.

Your samurai laugh in the face of pitiful indie archers. I haven't had a problem. Of course, i prefer Go-hatamoto for early indie expansion because the mm1 doesn't hamper them and they have a much lower attrition rate. (better protection + higher kill rate). Use the Go-Hatamoto as your central block with some Yamabushi as a flanking block.

(Ok, truly early expansion is going to be starting army + Yamabushi + a handful of Go-hatamoto/Aka-oni. Try to choose targets those samurai archers will actually matter against, since they're the only ones you're ever going to have).

Oh, Yama-no-kami spells 'cloud trapezing RoS caster' in Japanese. =) Totally useful.

[rdonj]

I also prefer go-hatamoto for expansion because, as squirrel said, they have a much lower rate of attrition. 17 protection is quite sufficient against shortbow fire unless it is overwhelmingly massed. Under CBM you can also make effective expansion parties out of samurai cavalry, preferably with a few arrow catchers because they don't have incredible protection.

[Stryke11]

Ok, so:

Nature sign = Reinvig?
Earth Sign = ? (from description it insta kills)
Water Sign = PotS?
Air Sign = ?
Fire Sign = ?

Sorry if I appear dense, but what is the benefit of making an Omnioyji your prophet? Access to the signs I gather but even with PotS and Reinvig they still seem a little weak - Astral mages aren't great for Jomon.

I haven't had a Nushi yet because there are only 3 swamp provinces (out of like 200) and I'm nowhere near them yet.

I have been sending out Shuras, and also pairs of Ujigami's and Kenzuko's based on the suggestion of having the Uji bless the Ken, I have a rainbow mage so all they get is some morale and 20% air shield, but still it's fun and feels like a strategy.