Which kingdom for Vamp Queen?

[endomorphious]

After playing around with some god builds, I've become enamored with the idea of playing the vamp queen in a new game. However, I don't seem to be able to decide which kingdom would, if not benefit, at least not suffer from her as a leader. Any suggestions?

I play vanilla, almost always on Glory of God map, default settings, and 12-15 kingdoms. Thanks in advance.

[13lackGu4rd]

you should check out Baalz's MA Abysia guide, he mentions going with an awake Vampire Queen in it. generally though, the Vampire Queen is a very underwhelming pretender, too expensive for what it gives you, especially if taking her awake.

[thejeff]

Very thematic for LA Ulm. She's useful too, providing a early way to start summoning Counts.

Still ridiculously expensive in vanilla, I'm not sure about CBM.

Long ago, back in Dom2, the VQ was actually useful and possibly overpowered, though the one player who was most successful with her was revealed to be cheating. She got nerfed several times in Dom2 and then in Dom3, ethereal was removed and the price raised again. Almost never worth it now.

[Bonfire]

KisssBlade made a pretty strong case for the VQ in his Patala guide.

I think the VQ is only worth it if your nation benefits from a pretender with death magic and has national blood summons that require paths your mages don't have. I think part of the reason the VQ is considered a weak choice is that not many nations fit this description. That and she's super expensive outside of cbm.

So LA Ulm, Patala, and Bandar Log seem like strong contenders. Not sure if there are any others.

[chrispedersen]

second what has been said before. The monkey nations and la ulm. Also I like the idea of La marignon... CBM makes the vamp queen slightly more affordable.

[Doo]

How about a high dominion high turmoil VQ led Pangea? Combine free vamps with free Maenads for a party like none other. Probably not the best investment but fun in idea.

[Verjigorm]

I don't like the Vampire Queen. If I want an immortal thug, I take the Lich. If I want an immortal with blood magic, I take the Master Lich and stick some initial blood on him... He has better death magic and dominion anyway.

The only reason I'd use her would be for thematic purposes and that means:

Late Age Ulm: Black Forest

[Doo]

You know...

I am playing a SP game as EA Pang with Dom 10 VQ and have heaps of Maenads but very few vamps. At Summer year 3 with a sleepy VQ a total of 8 vamps have been summoned. I chose Cold 3, Turmoil 3 and Growth 3 (for throwing in the grow vine-men spell too), does the passive summon vamp ability of the VQ require different scales or is it independent?

[Verjigorm]

It's dominion dependent. The more candles, the more vampires. Thus, with a VQ, you want to take high dominion which also benefits her with the Awe ability (9-10 dom).

[Squirrelloid]

The problems with the VQ are manifold.

She has a really expensive face value, even in CBM.

She basically requires Dom9-10, but her starting dom is 1. (Dom 9 costs 252 points from Dom 1, and its another 63 points for Dom 10)

She's a rainbow, but it costs 30pts/path to actually use it (in CBM, not sure what vanilla is). And of course, any paths are on top of the already insane price.

So what are you paying for? She's immortal, thug quality (not really SC against players), stealthy, and magically diverse - but only if you pay for it! But she can't use all of these attributes at once!

The whole point of rainbows is labwork and research - something you're not going to shell out 100+ pts for just to have the chassis when there are 0 and 10 pt chasses available (CBM, but the discrepancy is even worse in Vanilla because all the relevant chasses are more expensive). So the fact that she can rainbow adds no real value.

You can buy a better SC for less points, even after you factor in the costs associated with developing enough magic to matter after you retire the SC from combat duty.

You can buy immortal pretenders who are cheaper, and have higher starting dom. At least one of which rainbows easier, and one of which 'SC's easier.

And since a pretender *cannot* do everything, you're always going to go with the pretender that's a better buy for what you do want it to do. The VQ is never the better buy, and therefore should never see play. Ok at everything and good at nothing is a recipe for failure.

I mean, even the nations that are given above do far better with other pretender options. You want B/D access? You can get it with a rainbow or a fountain of blood much cheaper than with a VQ.

Basically, you waste a lot of points on a VQ that could be better spent on adding to a pretender that does what you want, or taking better scales.