Are we paying more for less?

[Agrajag]

Gandalf Parker said:
Its not like its a 50 cent CD (as one person said).

I think you took my post out of context.
What I said was that the cost of making a game CD itself are very (very!) low, unlike costs for a manual, which can be many many times more expensive. This is to say that the cost of actually producing a copy of dominions 3 is probably much higher than other commercial games with crappy manuals.
Obviously, on top of that there's employee's wages, paying Illwinter and other costs.

Another point I'd like to make (specifically to marc420) is that the Dominions 3 manual is very different from other manuals. It isn't the usual 10 pages of "Press the left mouse button to 'click'".
This is what I know about the manual from what has been said on the forum:
1) IIRC it was written by game guru Bruce Geryk.
2) It contains pages of reference sheets and lists that are very handy in playing the game. Viewing every item in the game for example can be very helpful when deciding if you want to empower that mage for forging.
3) It explains the game mechanics, which is obviously very useful.
And I suppose there's lots of other stuff I don't know about (or that my puny brain has filtered out)

All of these help to make sure this manual is a keeper, rather than a coaster.

[Terl]

I bought Dom2 at regular price after reading many glowing recommendations from Gandalf Parker on this and other forums. About a month after I got Dom 2 they announced Dom 3 pre-orders. I gladly purchased it (got it day before yesterday, woot!).

I have no problems with the pricing when I look at the hours and hours of enjoyment I have had with Dom 2 and will have with 3.

For fun per dollar the game is a bargain

[BigJMoney]

When I read this, there is one thing that constantly surprises me. It's how much people allow themselves to be influenced by convention. I don't think $55 is a high price, and many people have also given examples of why they don't think so, either. I do think $55 is a lot of money, especially to me. So far, everyone who has said that it is "too high" for their taste have been using other games/trends examples. Who cares about other games? Dominions 3 is not other games. This argument is skating the edge of the attitude that says, "The world owes me a living." Look at Dominions 3 and make your own intellectual decision about whether you feel it will be worth your $55. It's as simple as that. Not even other games sold by Shrapnel in the past need to influence your decision. Are we paying more for less? My vote is no, and to those of you who want to like the game, but are stuck in a mental bind on its perceived value, I pity you.

=$=

[Archonsod]

Thanks to the exchange rate, Dominions actually cost me considerably less than the majority of mainstream games. Of course, with the p&p costs it was back on equal terms...

[Nerfix]

Archonsod said:
Thanks to the exchange rate, Dominions actually cost me considerably less than the majority of mainstream games. Of course, with the p&p costs it was back on equal terms...

Same here.

[Mltdwn]

I don't know, as a Strat fan I have to agree it is a bit high for even my blood. I mean to me it comes down to paying nearly as much as I could for a 360 game (and yes there ARE some enjoyable, long playing games on the 360, I'm STILL playing Star Wars Legos and Dead Rising, plus some others) for a 4X fantasy game with poor graphics, etc. And before anyone bashes me on wanting good graphics I have to ask when the last time YOU bought a video card considering they are up ~$200 for a midline one, yeah I want my game to utilise it to it's fullest ability if I am paying that much.

Or I could simply wait one more month and getting Medieval 2: Total War which is largely the same thing, sans magic/random maps but has far better graphics, and realistic ground battles with 10k+ men on the field per side which you can actually control that takes everything into account just like in real life (with some exceptions with playability). And a relativly deep political/diplomatic interplay (compared to the Dom series) between all of the nations allowing you to turn nations against one another, play all the sides, etc., rather than simply "must destroy everyone" like in Dom3. AND pay only ~$40 for them. Not to mention the mods which will add the fantasy elements to it, like the already released Middle-Earth mod for R:TW.

And as for discount games, yes I bought EVERY single TW game when they hit the bargain bin and I STILL play all 3 of them and their expansions to this day on a fairly frequent basis. M2 is going to be the first I buy on release day because of CA's production values.

[JaydedOne]

I'm not sure what to tell you Mltdwn. So much of this discussion seems to boil down to "I'm totally going to buy this game" or "I'm definitely not buying this game". With so little room in-between, all we can really do is wish each other the best with our respective choices.

If the price point is the straw that breaks your camel's back, so be it. If Shrapnel feels that the price point is hurting them, I'm sure they'll adjust their market strategy. In the meantime, I guess I just need to spend less time trying to convince you of why it's worth $55 directly and more time just enjoying my new game. If I write enough about how great it is as I'm experiencing it, maybe you'll come around. And if you don't, we'll miss having you.

[Mltdwn]

I see your point Jayd.. My whole problem is while I like the idea of Dom3... It doesn't really strike me as worth the money when another company is providing essentially the EXACT same game in most respects, with higher production values, more gameplay options, and have made a fortune off of 4x games and proven it is anything but a "niche" market with reasonable prices... Basically what I am saying is with the competition releasing the same game in a month with all of those added abilities and production values for a lower price point what makes Dom3 worth it as it adds nothing different really (other than sprite based ground combat you can't control) to the gameplay.

[Nerfix]

Illwinter would need a lot more crew if it would wish to make a game up to date with graphics, and it would mean they would have to most likely cut down the amount of content.

More crew would need more money etc.

And MTW:2 is hardly equal to Dominions 3 and I doubt a middle earth mod for it will never reach even a quarter of the features that make Dominions series superb and creative fantasy games. MTW:2 will be prettier yes, will have nicer sounds etc. but Dominions series will be the massive fantasy game where your aim is godhood, and this puts it largely into a niche.

[Leif_-]

Mltdwn said:
I don't know, as a Strat fan I have to agree it is a bit high for even my blood.

So don't buy it. It's really that simple. Dominions is certainly a niche game -- heck, these days it's almost a niche inside a niche -- and unless the "nicheness" has extra value for you then Dominions III isn't worth $55 to you. To me that niche has a lot of value, which is why, for me, Dominions III is worth $55 and Medieval 2: Total War is not worth £30.

Is Dominions III an expensive game? Yes, it is. Is it worth $55? It is to some of us. It won't be for many others. Is it too expensive? Judging from the pre-orders, it would appear not.