DDay

[Christocipher]

I was landing in Normandy and really liked how the Petards creamed the Germans. I did some looking up tfor the Petard Mortar which is weapon number 43 for Britian. I think its numbers might be a bit wrong because the dustbin it fires is 230mm not 290mm and carries 40 lbs of explosive. It gets HE penetration of 30, HE Kill of 53 and warhead 15. I looked for something to compare and found UK weapon 180 the 120 pound bomb with 32.5 lbs of TNT gets HE penetration of 2, HE Kill of 21 and warhead 15. Or the UK weapon 181 250 lb bomb with 68 lbs of tnt has HE penetration of 4, HE Kill of 34 and warhead 22

Im guessing the 30 penetration is because it is a HESH? But I think maybe the Petard HE Kill is maybe to high?

Petard details are here

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2-g...oogle_vignette
https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/ar...hurchill-tank/
https://cmea-agmc.ca/armoured-vehicl...engineers-avre

I looked in my giant spreadsheet and found that the Petard is in British units 41 556 756 757 Canada 37 347 Belgium 262 India 41 AustraliaNZ 41

[Mobhack]

Thread moved to the appropriate forum.

this is a post on equipment - please post such in the TO&E forum and not the main game forum

[Mobhack]

I cant say I have ever bothered with the AVRE (unless given to me in a scenario) as it has such limited range. A 75mm gun equippped crocodile has a flame thrower which deals with bunkers at similar short range, and a 75mm which can plink most of them further away and deal with tanks reasonably well.

Not all AVRE are engineer tanks either now - the only one I would bother with as the obstacle mine clearance is useful, not having to crawl up to 2 hexes to deal with any bunker. A 75mm gun tank has a few smoke shells and can smoke off a pesky bunker from miles away as it approaches.

It is a fringe thing amongst other fringe things, and the stats have remained the same for a decade or more without any player reaction, till this post?.

The HE pen value is because its a HESH round, obviously. Which MBT has, but not WW2 so has to use HE pen instead. Not a lot of use as an AT weapon, unless the enemy lets you trundle your very slow churchill up to 2 hexes.. its a drawback of bunkers that they do!.

Lets see if any others have an opinion on the thing.

[Christocipher]

Thanks a lot for all that lesson on how to play the game its a great help for me. Looks like no one else posted anything so I must be right and found a mistake. Either the petard has too small a HE Kill or the 250 lb bomb is not enough HE Kill. I know you are the expert and can work out which is wrong straight away, but I can look in my giant spreadsheet and work it out for you as well if you want someone to check for you or you are to busy.

[Christocipher]

Even better than the petard is the LCT(R) that really really smashes everything up, I looked them up and found some funny stuff. I was playing the British and I saw that my unit 101 LCT(R) could sail right up to the shore and paste the germans real good. But I looked them up on the net and found this at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unrotated_Projectile they said

The Mattress for the Land rocket was limited in elevation from +23° to +45° which restricted the minimum range to 6,700 yd (6,100 m).
Three spoilers were made, which could shorten the range in stages to 3,900 yd (3,600 m).

Maybe then these craft should not be allowed to come up to the shore and fire straight at stuff because minimum range is about 3 miles. Maybe these should be off board units.

They are unit 101 in the British Canadian India AustraliaNZ OOBs. I looked a lot but could not find that the Canadians Indians or Australians or New Zealanders used any of them

Theres lots more about them at this place https://www.combinedops.com/US%20LAN...T%20ROCKET.htm

[DRG]

The OOB's evolved over many years. Many units were added to nations that may not have had them directly as they could have been used as support from other nations........ for DD for example a Canadian unit could have requested them as support...... whether they did or not is irrelevant.

As the game evolved the ability to "borrow" units from other nations as allied or captured which negated that need to add them to nations that may not have had direct access to them but by then the OOB's were well established and we were not going to remove units like that as doing so makes unnecessary work and introduces more chance that someones favourite saved game uses them so that is why they are still there and will remain so.

If you think you should not use them then don't use them and if you think you should not run them up to the shoreline then don't. "Free will" means it's your choice

Our enthusiasm for making major alterations to the OOB's at this stage is ZERO ESPECIALLY for a unit that has been used for decades in the form it is now........ WYSIWYG

ALSO..... " minimum range" is set for weapons like that in the "Sabot" slot of the weapon NOT the unit so if other units use them that may not have a range restriction then we would have to build a separate weapon just for those and we could have and even might have done that (maybe.....) had this conversation been started 2 decades ago.......so again----- WYSIWYG

Feel free to create your own OOBs. We include all the tools to do that with the game