Why Not Digitial Distribution?

[Gandalf Parker]

Stardock does seem to have a good lead on how to manage things. However they are not releasing their version of DD as a package. So its up to each site to try and write their own version if they want to follow in their footsteps.

Everyone is watching everyone else. Once someone really irons out all of the problems and makes it available as an installable package then I think many more sites will jump on. Just as it happened with forums, wikis, chats, and shopping carts.

[Soyweiser]

So there is money to be made for the one who perfects this? That would be some incentive for people to do it.

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by Soyweiser

So there is money to be made for the one who perfects this? That would be some incentive for people to do it.

If they have the infrastructure and the money to do so.

There's a lot of money to be made in Cold Fusion, as well, but I can understand Shrapnel not racing for the answers.

[Soyweiser]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

If they have the infrastructure and the money to do so.

There's a lot of money to be made in Cold Fusion, as well, but I can understand Shrapnel not racing for the answers.

True, but infrastructure and money are solvable problems. That is all a matter of scaling and acquiring capital. The first has been done by IT people for years now. And the second is also doable (but a bit harder in the current financial climate).

Edit:
And I'm not suggesting that Shrapnel should do it but if some company does this successfully it would be profitable for them.

[Gandalf Parker]

Well the company that sells the Forum software we are using is doing well (after all, Shrapnel bought that. Twice). And the Shopping Cart software is doing well (Shrapnel bought that also). So yes I would guess that a Digital Download Distribution package would sell quite well eventually. It would have its dangers (like a shopping cart package) so I wouldnt expect Shrapnel to jump on one as soon as its released. But it would make a big difference in the decision to offer it or not.

The method being used by Shrapnel now for its other games seems to still be in transition testing.

[Archonsod]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

WOW that would totally suck with this game. I cant even begin to think what it would be like to go back at this point and play with the vanilla version right off the disc.

But Im not sure it would be true with all games. The difficult part is tracking whether or not a game is authorized to receive the patch. Minor patches might not be a big deal but full upgrades would be.

It depends on the distributor. Steam and Direct to Drive have their own DRM wrapper on the game, so nine times in ten you can't use the retail patch on their version. Gamer's Gate tends to provide the install ripped straight from the CD, so functionally it's identical to the retail release (in most cases, I recently bought Gothic III and they were kind enough to provide it pre-patched to 1.6, which they pointed out "means it can work with the community patches". Jolly nice of them I thought).
Impulse goes one better though; Stardock's intent is to allow you to register any game they carry regardless of where you bought it (primarily via CD keys and the like) so you can use the automatic update feature of Impulse with the game, which would be kind of neat for something like Dominions. Since it's verifying on CD keys no authentication issues either.

It would be nice to see Dominions up there on Impulse, although 99% of my problems with having the game shipped across the pond would be resolved if they'd just write "gift" on the customs declaration. Saves me £15 if her majesty's finest decide to poke around in my mail.

[Makinus]

I sincerely hope that future products from illwinter offer digital distribution methods...

Would you believe that my Dominions package took more than 4 months to get to me in Brazil? All because of brazilian customs bureaucracy...

[Gandalf Parker]

I wouldnt hold out much hope for that.
You can get one of the first Illwinter programs as DD, "Conquest of Ellysium II" and its even free. But a new product will likely be large, a major source of revenue for bot Illwinter and Shrapnel, and be offered thru Shrapnels channels. So I would not expect them to take chances on it.

What I WOULD like to see is previous versions offered as DD. If Dom1 or Dom2 were offered DD then I think it would be a reasonable argument in THAT case that the possible sales would outweigh the possible losses.

[AstralWanderer]

Originally Posted by Tim Brooks

To limit piracy, we would have to go to a system like Steam uses and I personally refuse to do this. I don't think that the person buying the game should be the one penalized for spending their hard earned money in support of our developers.

This, to me, is an outstanding (and sadly, all too rare) sentiment to express. Sir, I salute you. Now if I could just develop a greater liking for hardcore wargames, I might purchase a few more items - but sadly Dom3 and SEIV are likely to be it for the time being.

Now how about flexing that chequebook and buying up Atari, Electronic Arts, Ubisoft and Valve and then sacking all the DRM-fanboys they employ? Then we could see digital distribution done properly, where legitimate purchasers don't have to live in fear of their licences being revoked.

As for the thread topic, I would be in favour of digital distribution generally (no postage delay or risk of damage due to an overzealous courier) but I consider the online activation requirements of systems like Steam or Impulse totally unacceptable and I boycott all their products on principle.

For those who have purchased from such services (and who go as far as to advocate them here) I'd just like to ask:

• Have you considered what would happen if the company went bankrupt and the activation servers shut down?
• Have you thought about the likelihood of digital publishers (Valve/Steam especially here) seeking to milk their customers in future by imposing an annual or monthly fee to keep accounts active?
• Have you ever thought that, by supporting such DRM, you are encouraging publishers to tighten systems more, pushing customers into digital slavery?

The only way to do digital distribution without leaving buyers vulnerable to later exploitation is via "once only, ever" verification systems which essentially is how shareware works. You register when you pay, you receive a personal licence key (which then shows your name on the program title/opening screen - encouraging people to keep their keys private) and the only piracy check is a local blacklist of known warez keys that gets updated in subsequent patches. Pirates are denied the latest version without legitimate customers having to suffer.

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by AstralWanderer

For those who have purchased from such services (and who go as far as to advocate them here) I'd just like to ask:

• Have you considered what would happen if the company went bankrupt and the activation servers shut down?
• Have you thought about the likelihood of digital publishers (Valve/Steam especially here) seeking to milk their customers in future by imposing an annual or monthly fee to keep accounts active?
• Have you ever thought that, by supporting such DRM, you are encouraging publishers to tighten systems more, pushing customers into digital slavery?

1) The likelihood of Impulse/Stardock going out of business anytime soon is nil. Due to Brad's disposition, and his strong stance on these issues, I would not doubt that he would personally see to it that all products purchased prior to dissolution of Stardock, would be allowed to be used in perpetuity.

2) I do not and will not use Steam, or some of these other services. But to imply this is a possible scenario with Stardock, is to express lack of understanding of what Brad Wardell and Stardock are trying to accomplish.

3) Supporting Stardock/Impulse, actually discourages conventional DRM. Maybe their system could be better, but they are doing an excellent job of juggling their interests, with the interests of their customers.


Personally, I've come to despise physical media. I've seen more disk failures in my life than I care to count, some of them irreplaceable.

I don't think we've perfected anything yet, but I do believe strongly enough that Brad and Stardock -want- to find the best solution, that I will patronize them until they either find it, or give up. But I'll still play my Dominions, oh yes, yes I will.