Which Nations Are Best for Turtling?

[InfStorm]

I find I have a lot of success turtling with MA Ulm. Their PD had good armor and once it's 25+ has enough to blunt most attacks on it's own. Combine that with a strong Drain domain to blunt magic attacks and with your Black Plate offensive forces, the can be quite difficult to pierce.

[Quitti]

In single player it might be so (referring to ma ulm here), but overall researching up a few evocations that decimate PD or simply getting indep crossbowmen in sufficient quantities isn't a problem in MP. Also, sc's are quite capable PD clearing forces in themselves (which is kind of their point - to destroy chaff or other sc/thugs efficiently enough). Still, Ulm has solid troops that can guard against most out of the combat unit summons unless they are really massed per province.

[Illuminated One]

Originally Posted by vfb

LA R'lyeh, MA C'tis spring to mind.

Edit: Hey, Japan has ninjas! Not Finland.

Why should LA R'lyeh be the best turtling nation?
Arguably you are the nation with the best defense in LA, but every turn you don't expand, you get poorer. Yes, you can research but sooner or later other nation will outdo just by having more gold.

[Squirrelloid]

You should be ashamed of even asking the question. Turtling is bad for the game - it leads to MP games lasting far longer than they should.

[Scarmiglione]

I don't think turtling is "shameful" (making mp games faster is hardly the whole point of the game), and it's a valid and even preferred tactic for a couple nations. I think EA R'lyeh is a good example of a turtle nation, as they have a tough time getting onto land, but are dominant underwater and have top-notch mages with lots of astral, so you can turtle up till you have your preffered magic researched and your preferred monsters summoned. obviously you can turtle just as well with Ma and LA r'yeh, but they don't really favor it as much as EA, since they have no problem getting onto land.

[Foodstamp]

Originally Posted by Calahan

I guess a lot depends on how you define turtling. To me, a turtling nation isn't just one that nobody fancies attacking, and hence are more likely to be left alone to turtle. Such as EA Abysia, MA C'tis, LA Ermor. The act of turtling, or a turtling nation, is one that can get stronger if left along quietly to research/fort/forge/summon etc. At least that's my definition of turtling.

To me you should only really turtle if it is of benefit to your nation, and you shouldn't turtle just because you want to turtle. The game can change too rapidly for that, and anyone caught sticking rigidly to one plan or idea very often misses out on good opportunities. Quite often though turtling is a very valid and entirely correct option, especially if you are waiting for a lucrative opening or if two neighbours are engaged in a mutually destructive war, allowing you to go in and clean them both up once you've turtled enough.

I never said LA Ermor couldn't turtle, but I just don't see any way LA Ermor gets stronger by sitting at home doing nothing but researching at a terrible rate, watching their income disappearing to zero, and leaving their undead hordes waiting around for battle. IMO if LA Ermor turtles, then they get weaker compared to all other nations in the game. So while you can turtle with LA Ermor, it just seems a totally illogical thing to do for me.

But good luck to any LA Ermor turtles who might be out there

By AlgaeNymph's definition, I think Ermor would do well.

[vfb]

Originally Posted by Illuminated One

Why should LA R'lyeh be the best turtling nation?
Arguably you are the nation with the best defense in LA, but every turn you don't expand, you get poorer. Yes, you can research but sooner or later other nation will outdo just by having more gold.

You can take turmoil/luck scales to get cash to buy mages. You get freespawn and you've got the void gate.

Anyone who invades provinces with your dominion goes insane (some special UW units of Jomon are resistant, I'm not sure about UW LA Mictlan units.)

You are UW in a world without other true UW nations.

You have awesome defense with enslavement BF spells and Illithids to paralyze SCs. You have reason to turtle while researching up to Master Enslave.

[vfb]

Originally Posted by Scarmiglione

I don't think turtling is "shameful" (making mp games faster is hardly the whole point of the game), and it's a valid and even preferred tactic for a couple nations. I think EA R'lyeh is a good example of a turtle nation, as they have a tough time getting onto land, but are dominant underwater and have top-notch mages with lots of astral, so you can turtle up till you have your preffered magic researched and your preferred monsters summoned. obviously you can turtle just as well with Ma and LA r'yeh, but they don't really favor it as much as EA, since they have no problem getting onto land.

Well, if you are playing in a full ocean, by the time you kill Atlantis and Oceania, you will have the research you need to expand onto land. It's only if you are alone in the ocean in a smaller game that you'd actually need to turtle.

[AlgaeNymph]

Since I'll soon (eventually, really) be in an EA MP game, what EA nations are best?

[Trumanator]

Well, Pan can be decent at turtling. Maenad spawning means that your forts are all but impossible to bring down, you can blood sacrifice to push dominion, and getting some good alt research done can make your maenads insane.