Counters to Niefelheim

[Zylithan]

Quick Version
How does Arcosephale (or anyone) counter Niefel giant armies (like 30) with good bless (regen, etc.)

Long Version
I was playing a game recently vs. another player (we're both noobish). I was arcosephale and he was niefelheim, and there were several average AIs. I was doing very well, huge research lead, good land lead, but falling behind in gold because I was stuck in wasteland and crazy independants (vampires, bogus and his heros) took all the provinces surrounding my capital. Anyway, I was still doing very well, but then got hit with ~ 30 giants. I threw hundreds of troops (mainly Cardaces, because I had low resources because of Bogus and vamps..) with a bunch of Oreliads and lesser mages at the giants and killed like one or two. Despite having 6+ research in just about every path I found my magic pretty useless. I hoped by outnumbering and using the magic I had I could fatigue or wear down the giants, but no such luck. Did I just not have enough troops? I did not have a SC.. would that have helped a ton? My pretender was a rainbow mage, I had no special heros. I know at least 3 big mistakes I made in this game, so I would do better a second time around.. but I'm just wondering was I doing the right thing, just not well enough, or was I doing completely the wrong counter.


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Thanks, and apologies for my noobishness. I'm trying and learning and hoping to join you folks in some "real" games eventually.

[thejeff]

Arcosephale?

The chaff troops will do little to nothing. Might slow them down long enough for mages to kill them.

Soul Slay. Enslave Mind. Paralyze. Petrify. Use penetration boosters and/or communion to boost your chances.

Don't fight them in cold dominion if you can afford it.

Fire spells do extra damage. Flame Storm?

Does EA Arcosephale have elephants? Probably wouldn't be too effective anyway.


Mind Hunt his commanders!

[Zylithan]

Thanks for your advice.

I'll read up on the spells you mention. My guess is many are astral and many are single target? So I'd need a lot of astral mages? I still need chaff to slow the giants from getting to my mages I imagine. Dominion was neutral or warm, I didn't have anything beyond fire 1 (except on my pretender, who was far away, but had fire 6 after multiple items buffing him). I had tried using "Fire from afar" with my pretender, but that would usually weakly injure a few units, and kill none according to my opponent. My Oreliads had lots of air magic, but I had trobule using them. As a tangent - what is "Breath of Dragon" spell supposed to do? It seems like my wizards always cast it (even if I script something else) and I have never seen it do any damage to any troop.

For units, I thought having the bigger arco units (aside from myrmidons, which I couldnt resource afford because my cap had only 2 wasteland neighbors, one ruled by Bogus) wouldn't help because of the giants' size.

[Zylithan]

thanks perfectionist.. hadn't seen your comments when I posted. I'll look into those spells also. I'm not sure their exact bless, but I know earth and nature are common on giants and water is just always popular so I should know how to stop that.

[thejeff]

I'm more familiar with the later Arcosephales. Wasn't it an astral nation in EA?

Try Charm as well. It's nature but short range. If you can make it work, they'll fight for you.

Air Magic? Thunderstrikes are good if you can get a lot of them. Fog Warriors might help, but not if he's got a F9 bless.

Against Neifel giants, single target one shot kill spells are what you want. They regenerate too fast to try to whittle them down.

Fires from Afar will damage a few troops. It'll kill normal humans, but the giants are too tough.

Breath of the Dragon does poison damage. It's nice, but does damage overtime and it probably canceled out by their regen.

Tougher/higher protection human units will still die in one hit so they aren't much use. Go for numbers but only as a meat shield. The mages do the killing. Massed summons can work too. Vine Ogres can make a decent wall. Living Statues or Mechanical Men if you've got the Earth magic.

[Zylithan]

Thanks for the comments all. I've been avoiding learning about communion because it sounds tricky, but that's a lame excuse. Time to learn it. I did try orb lightning a little, but perhaps throwing it harder would have worked better.

Thanks!

[Zylithan]

P.S. This community rocks. I've played other 4X type games, and I'm very impressed with the friendliness and helpfulness of the dominions community. I look forward to joining you useful folks.

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

What spells have you tried in combat?

If money is limited, but recruitment points aren't, consider mage engineers. You can also bootstrap fairly high into earth, though you'll be restricted by gems and fatigue limits.

Summon Earthpower will take you to earth two, and you can use further gems to cast as high as earth three. As many as two gems per spell, but earth three. So no fatigue 300 spells, since you can't use the minimum gems. Fortunately, a lot of earth spells are low fatigue, and you can cast some worthwhile ones without additional gems.

Earth Meld should be ignored, however, as should air's Fetters. They roll against strength and magic resistance.

That's about all I can offer at the moment, w/o a manual at hand or an online spell listing to refresh my memory.

[Micah]

Flaming arrows and indy archers will crushinate the sacred giant troops. With communion available or just a simple F2 + phoenix power + extra gem in casting it shouldn't even take much mage power. Just get some chaff to soak up the giants attacks halfway down the battlefield and watch the pain.

[thejeff]

I'm not sure Flaming Arrows is that effective against Neifel Giants, but it's worth trying if you've got the mages.

Since you've got Air mages to spare, use Wind Guide to make every arrow count. (And minimize friendly fire.)