PBEM "campaigns"

[yyjames]

Hello all

I vaguely recall reading somewhere that there was a way to setup a "campaign" or at least a series of related battles using the same forces from battle to battle for PBEM a la campaigns.

I've searched around here at Shrapnel as well as the old SPWW2 yahoo group but can't find the note. Anyone know how to do this or have I been smoking something heavy duty in my sleep?

Thanks

James

[Cross]

Hi James,

The game is not able to support campaign play in PBEM mode, in the same way as you'd play a campaign against the AI. Wish it could, but it was never written into the original game and I don't think the code would support that sort of re-write.

Because of this, I came up with my own PBEM campaign system that uses a manual process. It is possible that it is this that you have read about in the past, as I have discussed it a couple of times on a few different sites.

Basically, I keep track of my “core” with an Excel spreadsheet. Then just rename officers of the same unit type/rank in the next battle; if they survived. It’s actually far more fun than a campaign against AI. I started out small, just keeping track of officers Captain and above, but then added junior officers and NCO’s that distinguished themselves.
If there is no acceptable counterpart, in the new battle, then the officer is on leave, or no position is available under your command for this battle. However, he stays on your spreadsheet and so may be back to fight in the next battle.
I put an “*” after the junior officers/NCOs name, or an award if they’ve won a medal (e.g. Corp. Bufton MM). So I instantly recognize him as a campaign/core officer. Then refer to the excel roster for their battle record. During a battle I put their number (e.g. A0, B0, B1) on the spreadsheet for quick reference.

During the battle I take note (as a commander should) of:
* Noteworthy acts of valour
* Extraordinary number of kills.
* Exceptional leadership in battle
* Remarkable success on the battlefield
* Cowardice, failure etc.

This is similar info that you’d record for an AAR. At the end of the battle I determine if a Decoration/Medal, Promotion or Demotion should be awarded, by using realistic discretion.

The spreadsheet roster has name, rank, unit type, kills, battles, awards etc. It’s easy to click there now that SPww2 is in windows :-). If you want to see the spreadsheet, let me know and I’ll post it for you.

The neat thing is you can keep track of as many or as few men as you’d like; and you only have to keep data according to your preference. I found that too much record keeping takes away from the battle, but I’ve found a system and balance that works for me, I tweak it sometimes.

It seems to create more realism, as I find I get attached to certain officers and NCOs and am less willing to just throw them into a marginal situation. I'm sure this is how it was IRL. Alternatively, I will risk men to save other men's lives; rather than just leave them stranded without support. But there are plenty of officers that you just don't get the chance to become familiar with; from what I've read, this is also how it was IRL. Adds a dimension to PBEM that it's otherwise lacking.

I am currently in the middle of my 6th PBEM battle in an Italy campaign. I move forward a month or two after each battle. I posted an AAR quite recently here:

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...b=5&o=&fpart=1

Going into this 6th battle I have 21 core/campaign officers (on the high end for me) nine of them have won medals. Eight of them are NCOs. Only one of them (my A0) has fought in all six battles; and only one has fought in five battles.

Hope this helps,
Cross

[yyjames]

I was afraid the answer would "no" for being able to carry units over from battle to battle. I guess I'll have to do it manually for a PBEM series I'm setting up.

What I'm trying to setup is a 3 game "campaign" where the same units and formations are carried over from battle to battle without being upgraded or re-fitted between battles. It would be a meeting engagement followed by a advance/delay and the last game TBD based on result of the advance/delay. Since the game can't carry the units/formations over, I'm thinking its a manual tally of remaining formations. As a ground rule, formations with a 0 unit (at whatever purchase level i.e. company, platoon or squad) that have less than 50% vehicles or men that are destroyed/killed will be eliminated and formations with greater than 50% remaining upgraded to full strength units/formations to represent cross-attaching and re-constituting after each battle.

I would welcome any comments or suggestions on the above idea.

[Cross]

Hi James,

You are right that your idea will have to be manually administrated. But I think it will be quite easy to do and will probably capture the essence of what you are after.

Is it mostly the casualty impact that you were interested in modeling, or would you also carry over the names of all the officers to give it some personal continuity?

You will have to be careful of your 50% idea. Particularly with vehicles, because it’s quite likely that one of the opponents will get greater than 50% casualties in an armoured company while the other may well get less than 50%; which will mean one may not start the next battle with any armour and the other with a full refitted armour company (as long as he didn’t lose more than 50% in any platoon).

It may work better if you counted the number of individual surviving vehicles and then during purchase for the next battle bought platoons/companies in quantities that match the surviving vehicles. Armoured formations are not like infantry where once they are over 50% casualty rate they are possibly rendered ineffective. This is particularly true when they are supporting a larger infantry based battalion. The vehicular survivors of a battle will still be at the beck and call of the battalion CO to help stop a counter attack despite their casualties; they’d not be pulled out of the line for a refit until after the immediate danger or series of battles were over. Which is what I expect some of what you are in interested in simulating.

You could say that damaged vehicles that survived, will be fixed in the lull between battles.

Also you could determine ahead of time whether any reinforcements (and what size) will be available after the first battle. Perhaps reinforcement will only be available for the “loser”, perhaps for both or perhaps only for winner because now he has to attack.

As for infantry, the game already models the dissolution of sections as a result of wounds and KIAs. Which is why some sections are lost while they still have three unhurt men. But your problem is how to model a platoon that has taken 60% casualties, still has four viable sections but should not start the next battle at 100%.

As with vehicles, you could do it by number of men. You have 18 men left in a platoon you only get to buy 2 sections/squads in the next battle. So if you started with a platoon of 4 sections (40 men) One section was wiped out (even though it still had three men left, those men can be considered psych casualties) the other three sections have 6 men each, so a total of 18 survivors. Next battle (round up the 18 to 20) and buy two sections; if it had been 14 men left buy only one section.

My understanding is that COs often had to throw units together to make makeshift platoons, companies etc. to defend/attack while they waited for replacements. So in your second battle you’d be doing that with then men you have left.

Cheers,
Cross

[Double_Deuce]

I'm working up the details on something similar but in this system a group of players would be on a single team with assigned commands (probably at infantry company level). They would plan operations on larger map and using a system of charts and trigger criteria, an umpire would determine which players would become engaged with their "unit". Once contact was determined the umpire would create the necessary scenarios for them and they would play against the AI. I would then take the endgame reports and update all OOB's.

Enemy forces and reinforcements (for both sides) for each scenario would be determined through an extensive use of tables. Enemy force size would be based on key terrain, some other charts and some force multiplier criteria.

It's loosely based on Solitaire Advanced Squad Leader but on a multi-player level where players actions are intertwined in the bigger picture.

[yyjames]

Cross

Units in real life very, very, very rarely fight to the last man/vehicle but thats what we players always do with their units in one off games. So I want to reduce the meat grinder aspect to one off games and force myself and my opponent into thinking "long" term like in a campaign game.

You have a point regarding vehicle units...I was thinking that if there at least 2 less than full strength formations left then it would be reconstituted to 1 full strength formation for the next battle. But counting individual vehicles probably makes more sense.

The game does indeed eliminate infantry squads/sections when they get decimated but I always thought that was to represent a completely combat in-effective unit. Presumably the survivors would show up at a higher HQ and be sent as replacements to other units at some point in time. So it probably makes sense to count troopers like vehicles to reconstitute after a battle.

[Cross]

Hi James,

I think your goal is excellent.

I'm in a PBEM battle now where I have my opponent pretty much routed. At this point, in a normal PBEM, I would abandon caution and rush forward beyond his lines and finish off the many damaged infantry sections, and get at some of those rear units just to get those extra points and hey...why not, I've won anyway.
But Instead I am exercising caution, because my men have fought with me for several battles and I hope they will for several more. Rushing headlong into his lines will expose too many to close assaults by unspotted infantry or ambushes by AT guns.

Yeah, I think spww2 does a pretty good job of simulating damaged/destroyed infantry sections. If the unit is completely dispersed it would be fair to say any survivors of that section were wounded, or not in a fit state to be re-organized into a new section for a counter-attack that same day or the next morning.
However, units that still have 4 men left, still have 4 men that are in fighting shape. The other 6 are assumed to be the wounded, and shell shocked and perhaps even some dead. So even though the section only has 4 men at the end of the battle, I would definately count these men in, when it comes to a re-organizing your forces into new platoons.

Having to think ahead will reduce the 'meat grinder' to some extent, but start tracking individual officers, with their battle record, kills, promotions, medals etc, and I'll guarantee that, after a couple of battles, you start to get much more cautious with those officers/NCOs that you have become familiar with and know by name.

cheers,
Cross