Helheim Superpower!

[Cerlin]

After some extensive playing as EA Caelum, I have encountered Helheim and the Glamor is amazing! It is almost impossible to beat these armies even with magic weapons, archers, or magic. I then proceded to make a game as Helhiem and I am able to dominate the game early with little effort!

My question is how the hell do I beat this nation? Is there any real way to defeat the armies of hel besides just bypassing them and attacking the back country? Thanks in advance!

[calmon]

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...t=6#Post478477

Some counters are discussed here. In addition the discussion of nerfing vanheim/helheim.

[Gandalf Parker]

Personally, bypassing them and taking out their support provinces is my favorite tactic.

Every nations doesnt have to balance every nation army-for-army. As long as there IS some nation or some tactic that will work against them. But I agree they seem pretty rough in small blitz games.

[Evil Dave]

Gandalf Parker said:
Personally, bypassing them and taking out their support provinces is my favorite tactic.

You and some guy named Hutier.

[biekert]

I hear you Cerlin; even 10-20 glamour warriors can ruin your day.

On any non-epic scale game, the "glam" nations Vanheim and Helheim are banned in our multiplayer games. As I said in the other thread, they remind me a lot of Ashen Empire Ermor in Dom2...

[FrankTrollman]

As I said in the other thread, they remind me a lot of Ashen Empire Ermor in Dom2...

Yep.

• Reasonably easy to play
• Sufficiently different from other nations as to make standard tactics ineffective.
• Pretty vulnerable to tailored non-standard tactics.

You're Caelum? Try a squad of Mammoths trailing after a screen of indep infantry and set magicians up to cast a bunch of Freezing Mists.

Helhirdings die at about the same rate as anyone else to cloud spells or tramplers and cost 7 times as much each - their glamor is quite effective against many standard tactics - use non-standard tactics to take advantage of your numerical superiority.

-Frank

[Shovah32]

Your caelum? Get a bunch of flying mammoths(mammoths set to hold and attack beside mages casting flight) and air evocations and blast them away.

[tromper]

I've only played a bunch of ME games the past few months, single player with AIs random/difficult. As a new player it's ridiculous for you smarty experienced guys and gals to think we have to get so pre-planning bonkers whenever Vanheim randomly appears. Because every. Single. time. They dominate all other AIs.

I'm playing Ulm currently. Vanheim counter? Yeah right. I'm supposed to know beforehand? Gosh, the AIs are randomized. Tell me how to counter Van as they roll over two other of the five nations and start nailing the crap out of me. Turn 40-50 or so. Yeah right. Hopeless. And it's happened with ME C'tis as well. And another time. It's awful.

In my dumbo opinion, random games with the AI: Vanheim shows up? May as well quit that game and start another.

But hey, I suppose things are all balanced, yeah? And I shouldn't be playing the AI on random? heh

[Uh-Nu-Buh]

Sounds like you are having fun!

No, the game is not balanced in the paper-rock-scissors way of thinking or the each-nation-has-equivalent-troops manner either. They ARE balanced in that there are so many different units, spells, tactics, etc. that effectively counters exist to any nation/unit/ability--it just takes thought and creativity.

Not that some nations (vanheim) aren't tough as nails for the inflexible and stupid AIs to take on. They are. And some are tougher than others for People as well, especially if you take a nation that is weak vs that particular nation.

Here's an easy counter for Van's glamour: hip-deep cheap hobbit infantry. Make them wade through hobbit chaff. Have 1 ind HI for every 3 hobbit chaff, and you got yourself a pretty easy, cheap counter.... You just have to worry about food. And archers. And slingers, really.... But standard glam units? Nah.

[FrankTrollman]

Turn 40 to 50? Try having 30 Master Smiths show up with the following script:

(Summon Earth Power) (Magma Eruption) (Magma Eruption)(Magma Eruption)(Magma Eruption)

Now put 12 stacks of black plate infantry which are each 2-5 men on "Hold and Attack: None" and place them each up and down the field in a mid-forward starting position.

Now take whatever indie archers you happen to have and stick them in three blobs to fire at Archers, Cavalry, and Closest. Position them in the middle in the top, center, and lower regions.

Now put the rest of your Ulmish infantry in a couple of big hold and attack blobs behind all the rest of your stuff.

Finally, take this army and march it directly to the Vanheim capitol and kill everything in your path. A turn 45 Ulm should have virtually no problem beating a van army in the field - especially one that's compuer controlled.

-Frank