Tatics and Melee Commanders

[mlepinski]

I'm new to the game and I haven't figured out yet how to get good mileage out of melee commanders with good statistics. I've observed that if I put some nice magic weapon/armor on commander, I end up with a pretty impressive melee unit. However, I'm not sure what to do with him in combat.

It seems if I put him behind the troops he commands then he stands around watching while the infantry in front of him get slaughtered. And if I put him in front of the troops he commands then he's likely to be the first person to reach the enemy and he gets surouunds and killed (but at least he takes some of them down with him).

Perhpas what I need to do is put him off to the side? Or perhaps clump all of my melee comanders together so that none of them can be surrouned?

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks,
- Matt Lepinski :->

[Saber Cherry]

Unfortunately, I find melee commanders to be either disposible or invincible. Using multiple forges on disposable commanders (aside from a single elemental resistance / water-breathing / flying / arrow resistance / magic unit command / supply-bonus item, depending on the opponent and troops) is a bad idea. Melee forges like swords, helmets, shields, and armors are excellent on invincible supercombattants, and nearly worthless on mortals. Take your choice - forge logistical items (above) or ranged items like bows, lifelong protections, wands of wildfire, and such for mortal commanders, or melee items for invincible commanders. But never vice-versa.

Assassins and heroic leaders are exceptions. They are mortal, but you want to keep them alive as long as possible. But don't send a unit with ~10 HP into general melee combat, regardless of its equipment.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
Take your choice - forge logistical items (above) or ranged items like bows, lifelong protections, wands of wildfire, and such for mortal commanders, or melee items for invincible commanders. But never vice-versa.

Zen pointed out to me that Ulm can make decent use of it's forging bonuses by providing items for black lords. An elemental armour removes most of their vulnerabilities, and nature mages aren't too hard to find for poison resist rings. They have fairly decent survivability in close combat at that point, and really only need something like a sword of sharpness or firebrand to make them complete.

Assassins and heroic leaders are exceptions. They are mortal, but you want to keep them alive as long as possible. But don't send a unit with ~10 HP into general melee combat, regardless of its equipment. [/QB][/quote]

Depending totally on the situation/gem income/weaknesses of your nation and other aspects of gameplay. Making a high powered strike force that is immune to certain elements can be a great asset (especially for the magically focused Ulm and a few other nations)

The Black Lord is a great example of this, as he can be equipped with a Elemental Hauberk, Poison Ring, AMA and a Sword of Sharpness and lead a cadre of 5 Black Knights (On Guard Commander) to hammer into a rearmost position or archer position.

It's not for every game or every opponent, as there is a chance for them dying (and thus losing not only gold but gems as well) but the highly mobile and highly armored knightish units if equipped right can turn battles. They are especially useful with fear causing items.

[Argitoth]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
...heroic leaders are exceptions. They are mortal, but you want to keep them alive as long as possible.

Why do I want to keep heroes alive? A lot of them are usually not good enough for melee combat.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Argitoth:
Why do I want to keep heroes alive? A lot of them are usually not good enough for melee combat.

There's more to the usage of heroes than just melee. Magical research, site searching, ferrying troops back and forth, just to name a few. You can even use them for diVersionary attacks if you don't feel they are up to the task of a major battle.

Not every problem can be solved by a hammer (ie: a head-on confrontation, a melee). Try to use all the tools you have to their best advantage.

[Saxon]

In my recent game as Ermor, I used the troops and melee heroes as disposable items. Unsurprisingly, they got killed.

Later in the game, I faced a shortage of heroes to move the huge numbers of troops in the back areas. If I had kept my heroes alive, I could have avoided taking mages off research to summon basic Ermor commanders.

As my father always said, “Waste not, want not.” When I heard it as a kid, I thought he was just ignorant, but his experience in the world showed he actually knew something about computer games! Then again, Dad also thinks that you can fix anything, including nuclear reactors, with duct tape, so perhaps he is not perfect..

[General Tacticus]

I like to use my melee commanders in the frontlines in the first turns, against weak indies, to try and snatch a good heroic ability (valor, bellow, quickness come to mind). But once I am facing the AI or tough indy, they go back to a safer battlefield position.

Some tactics to minimize risks :
1) put your army in front and sligthly to one side, and put your commander a little back and more to the side, on hold (one turn) and attack. He should arrive in the main battle once the enemy is already engaged, and on what will be the enemy's weaker flank.
2) with a mounted commander, give him a few (mounted) bodyguards, and let him lead an attack rearmost attack if the enemy has some weak missile troops (not Ulm crossbow !)

In any case, never risk a commander that way without knowing what you are facing.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Saxon:
Then again, Dad also thinks that you can fix anything, including nuclear reactors, with duct tape, so perhaps he is not perfect..

Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough. Your father is a wise man.

[PvK]

For the actual question (instead of supercombattant value discussions), to get a commander to actually fight in melee more often than not, he needs to have an Attack order, as the default for a melee commander is Stay Behind Troops.

To keep him from fighting alone or getting stuck, you need to look at his Action Point rating to see how fast he'll advance in combat, and compare that to your other troops, and place him ahead or behind or to the side as appropriate, which may take some trial and error.

You can also assign troops to him on guard commander. As long as they aren't slower than he is, and start out near him, they'll follow him around and fight at his side.

You usually want to have at least one commander on Stay Behind Troops or some other safer order, though, because once the Last leader dies, the men tend to flee.

PvK