Fog of war

hawk66 · #1 June 11th, 2009, 05:50 AM

I do not know if this was already discussed:

I'd like to see the 'Fog of war' enhanced in that way that (enemy) units are not completely known when you detect them for the first time. What I mean is that you only see the basic type (tank, infantry and so on ) but not the specific type (depending of the distance and visibility, of course).

Later, when you have more intelligence about the unit the complete info would be available.

What do you think?

RightDeve · #2 June 11th, 2009, 07:18 AM

Hi

I'm afraid (and pretty sure) that's not modeled in the game.
For that thing to be implemented, I'm sure there will be lots of tearing down of the game's code, as you know, units which are not well-identified will need another Icon to depict it on the battlefield, say.

Although the feature is good, I don't think it has a deep impact on the flow of the gameplay. For one game to have that feature I would recommend the Combat Mission series.
I've played CM (and set the FoW setting to extreme) and IMHO, the effect to the battlefield is not so big. Moreover, it's often (in my experience) that the "limited-information" shown when we first sighted the enemy is 97% the same with the actual info when we have engaged that unit.

Also, keep in mind that the game's (WinSP) scope is 50 meter per hex and 2-3 minutes per turn, and usually it's being played at battalion level to regimental level. So, such "enhanced FoW" will usually of no use when compared to the "gigantic scope" of the game.

Perhaps Don and Andy have better explanation of the feature.

Just my $ 0.02

EJ · #3 June 11th, 2009, 07:33 AM

RightDeve,
You said it right. Don and Andy will pretty much say the same. They ARE NOT GOING TO REWRITE the code per one person's wishes....The only other thing you can do is increase or decrease the visibility.

Wdll · #4 June 11th, 2009, 07:42 AM

I don't see a reason to SCREAM LIKE THAT TO HIM/HER just because he asked our opinion on a matter.

I like the idea of this fow, but in the long run I don't think it would make any meaningful difference in the game. Don't forget that you don't always automaticaly see the enemy unit firing at you. Also, if you are so inclined (I think it is lame, but some might not mind), I believe you can rename your units in a battle so when the enemy sees M-60 firing it could say Pussy-Cat firing. Mind you, I might be wrong on this lol.

hawk66 · #5 June 11th, 2009, 07:54 AM

I know that Don and Andy will not rewrite the code due to the wish of one person.

I agree that the impact of such a feature would not be a dramatic change to the gameplay; in a real time sim like combat mission shock force this is a different story.

Personally, I would like to have this feature but you cannot have all things in your life

.

RightDeve · #6 June 11th, 2009, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wdll

Also, if you are so inclined (I think it is lame, but some might not mind), I believe you can rename your units in a battle so when the enemy sees M-60 firing it could say Pussy-Cat firing. Mind you, I might be wrong on this lol.

LOL

Smart ***!
Once I renamed my "Tiger" unit (in SPWW2) to "PzKw IIa" and my "SdKfz 251/10" to "Tiger".
And that's my favorite hobby to rename units especially in PBeM.

Imp · #7 June 11th, 2009, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RightDeve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wdll

Also, if you are so inclined (I think it is lame, but some might not mind), I believe you can rename your units in a battle so when the enemy sees M-60 firing it could say Pussy-Cat firing. Mind you, I might be wrong on this lol.

LOL

Smart ***!
Once I renamed my "Tiger" unit (in SPWW2) to "PzKw IIa" and my "SdKfz 251/10" to "Tiger".
And that's my favorite hobby to rename units especially in PBeM.

It would make very little diffrence exept to slow the game down as the player now looks at your unit info screen each time. Even with several units in a hex use of P & N target would let him chooose the next target, lame idea.

As to the fog of war it models very well considering the game time you dont instantly find units & can often pull off hit & runs with little return fire.

Suhiir · #8 June 11th, 2009, 12:31 PM

The scale of the game, 50m hexes, 2-3 minute turns make that sort of "Fog of War" (FoW) rather "unrealistic".

Let me try to explain why I think this.

For FoW to exist there must be a posibility if not liklihood for misidentification of units.

If one side sees the other sides recon vehicles they may be unable to correctly identify the type of unit they are doing recon for - Armor, Mech, etc. This is FoW.

But at tactical ranges it's pretty easy to identify the type of recon vehicle they're seeing. No FoW.

Any half competent military force WILL spend some time on vehicle recognition before they enter combat with an opponent. And while it is certainly possible for someone to misidentify a vehicle it's unlikly 3, 4, 10 people will.

That make any sense?

RightDeve · #9 June 11th, 2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imp

It would make very little diffrence exept to slow the game down as the player now looks at your unit info screen each time. Even with several units in a hex use of P & N target would let him chooose the next target, lame idea.

It depends much on how we use that "trick".
Surely enough, that won't be of big difference if we rename our units excessively. That trick will be very useful to "demoralize" the enemy down if we know how to do that.

For example, in a shoot-and-scoot mission for a Nashorn. We put the AFV on ambush position and rename it to, say, Tiger II. Both vehicles have the same main gun. Once the enemy is in range, start firing and go the fallback position. Most of the time the "pinned" enemy won't be able to spot your Nashorn, especially if it's only one shot.

That trick will make the enemy wonder if we have the Tiger II. And, considering how deadly Tiger II is, he will make a second thinking.

Maybe tis not so much of a FoW, but it works for me sometime.

PS: Don't try this against the AI, he's surely smarter than you think.

Wdll · #10 June 11th, 2009, 01:10 PM

I keep thinking about this request. While this FoW in the above way, makes sense say in air battles or sea, even for infantry battles, it would be problematic for vehicles. You are fighting USA, you see a tank, what chances are it will be something other than Abrams? But even with other countries that have a greater diversity, if are at war against them, and you are able to see the enemy vehicle, shouldn't be relatively easy to figure out if it is model A or B? I think this type of FoW fits more a real time strategy game, than say this or perhaps even reality.
Just IMO of course.