Newbie Strategies POST THEM HERE

[Soldiercrush]

I am new at this game and I can see people have been playing for years. I am trying to read everything I can, and play alot to make many mistakes to learn from. Can some of you pro's post some of your basic strats? Range--smoke--etc.... TYpes of units

I really need some help?

THanks in advance!

[Imp]

Covering both your posts here only need the one really
Firstly have you read the guide probably covers the basics (can't remember)
The faster you move the less accurate your fire & the easier you are to detect.
Accuracy goes up if you maintain target lock on the same unit the 3rd shot has them zeroed in.
Because of this change units if fired on or the next shot at it will be more accurate.
Fire with units in cover or furthest away first as most likely to survive unscathed.
Dug in units are hard to spot & very hard to kill best infantry vs at any range are snipers & MGs, for any real chance though you need a strategy to get you within 150m preferably adjacent & shoot at point blank.
Thats what your smoke is for do not move into it place it as a screen to reduce the number of enemy that can fire on you or move up without being shot at.
Getting in a slugfest with dug in units is suicide you need to greatly outnumber them fire some people preferably from stationary then move others closer for the kill.
So use your smoke to help you concentrate your force on a few units by screening the rest out of the fight dig them out & move on, that being said you will need practice they are far tougher than infantry in the open.
The other use for smoke is suddenly finding you are outnumbered if taking a shot means 5 units are going to fire back at you not shooting or placing smoke might make more sense.
Infantry smoke does not last long less if visibilty is high but generally nearly gone by the next turn, other types last longer.
Your first half a dozen games would not worry about the outcome just try & come to grips with basic strategies & see what works & what doesnt.

[RightDeve]

Also, a rule of thumb. When you commence an offensive operation, DON'T SPREAD YOUR FORCES THIN ALL ALONG THE FRONT. Concentrate your forces on the "perfect spot" to breach enemy defenses deep and then wreak havoc from their rear or flanks.

This won't apply in Meeting Engagement I think (generally) when you both should advance and cover your won VPs. Except if, your primary first objective is the destruction of enemy forces, and then capture all VPs.

Just my $ 0.02

[RightDeve]

On the above move, you can commence your "secondary" quality forces to protect your own weak spot, to tie down the enemy, while your main forces advance on the perfect location. If, in Meeting Engagement, you suspect the enemy to attack heavily on your weak spot, then you could designate a Mech. Platoon or even a company as a "fire brigade", to plug that enemy's advance.

In Meeting Engagements also, it's best to have a Mechanized Company or two to capture the advance good positions, use them as vanguards to deny the enemy those perfect positions, to delay them, and finally to allow your main body to come there and breach it.

So much meeting engagements here, as i think it is the default style of play on most PBeM game.

Cheers, RightDeve

[Soldiercrush]

i have been reading every page of every post from the past 4 years--I am going to post some other peoples words(THESE ARE NOT MY POSTS BELOW I must give credit to those other people




All I can say is, dude I feel your pain, so let me offer my lessons learned. The infantry horde was most noticeable to me on delay missions. This is because the enemy gets a significant advantage in purchase points on these missions. Delay used to be my least favorite mission. I would dread it each time it came up because it basically meant my core was going to be wiped out. I would have to use banked repair points after the battle to completely rebuild. If I happened to draw a couple of delays in a row then my campaign was pretty much over as my command was reduced to an ineffective fighting force. I remember the first time I got a draw I was so happy. I thought I had slaughtered the enemy and inflicted terrible losses on them. However, when I looked at the map after the battle I saw a human wave that was still steamrolling toward me. It seemed like every hex in the middle third of the map had an infantry section in it. That was a little tough for morale knowing I had fought my guts out and still had that to deal with.

So after this my tale of woe I would like to offer my tips on dealing with delay missions for discussion.

Number 1 and most important. Do not try to defend the entire front! You can't do it. You'll be spread too thin. Instead pick an area that you will make your "citadel". It doesn't even have to contain victory hexes although that helps. I have lost every single victory hex before but if you still have a credible fighting force the mission will continue to allow you to retake them. Terrain is the key here. I like to pick an area that will give both good fields of fire along easy advance routes and good cover to fall back in to. I find as a rule of thumb I can defend an area about 1/3 the size of my half of the map.

For deployment I put all of my slow forces in the citadel usually in tree lines and such. I spread out my mobile forces to cover the rest of the front but only if they have a line of retreat that can lead them back to the home base without being in LOS of the enemy such as behind some trees or behind a hill. For both static and mobile forces remember you are not drawing a line in the sand. Rather you should plan on falling back to successively smaller defensive perimeters. One fallback position is an absolute minimum. Two or more for every unit is preferable. Remember to balance this so the size of the last area of defense is not so small that a heavy artillery barrage will neutralize your entire force. I find keeping 1 open hex between units to be a good rule of thumb.

For force composition (support units) ammo and artillery of every variety is your friend. Also some extra infantry can be good since most people tend to not have enough infantry in their core. Infantry is good because they can put out a lot of fire before running out of ammo. I have had tanks run completely out of ammo before, down to the last MG bullet. If you get to this situation your tank is effectively out of action for the rest of the mission as it will take so long to reload it with ammo that the mission turn limit will be over. This is further complicated by the fact that the main gun is reloaded first which loads even slower and that is the last thing you want when facing a hoard of infantry. I like to use lots of light AT guns and heavy mortars. The mortars should have transport and if the AT guns don't they should be really cheap because you are going to write them off as "suicide" defenders (sucks to not be a core unit doesn't it?). You should have one mobile ammo unit for each platoon of on map arty (indirect fire arty only). Wagons, horses, donkeys, whatever work best because they are cheap. Also have one spare ammo unit so that your front line units can fall back and resupply when needed. AT guns can also supply from this unit. Finally get a platoon of cheap, fast moving armored cars. These will be used to retake victory hexes in the final stage of the battle.

As Germany facing the Soviet masses in the early stages of Barbarossa my favorites are:
off map arty - 10.5cm battery+ (double ammo)
on map arty - 10cm mortar (cuts up infantry best)
AT guns - any caliber that has a movement rate of at least 1. 5cm is probably getting "too good". I happen to keep a platoon of 5cm AT in my core but that's not necessary. You should, however, have a platoon of heavy AT in your core. Guard these guns as they were your most valuable treasure.

For tactics remember you're just trying to take the edge off and then retire, not hold the line initially. Try to knock out all or most of the enemy armor first. The computer makes this fairly easy as they charge forward before infantry support can catch up. Tanks can fire only one turn saving enough movement points to retire out of sight as they will be spotted. AT guns (which is why I like them so much) can fire one or two SHOTS per turn for 2-3 turns before being spotted. If you fire your entire allotment of shots in a turn you will be spotted quickly so only do this if you are going to knock out all of the units that can see you. Have your guns in a tree line and move them back one hex to a waiting transport when it's time to fall back. If he's one of the unlucky that doesn't have transport then just give 'em hell for as long as you can after being spotted. Shoot and scoot is the name of the game. You've got about 4 turns from when you first start shooting until you've got arty coming down on you. You want to be out of there and on your way to the next position by then. Move sooner with guns you can't risk losing (your heavy AT).

Use your heavy artillery if you have it to blow any key bridges on turn 0 then hold it in reserve or for counter battery fire. Use the rest of your arty to shell the smoke puffs of enemy artillery and advancing troop concentrations. I like to shell 1 or 2 hexes behind the front line infantry that I can see. This will put you in the middle of the troop concentration because you know there are lots of infantry sections following up that you haven't spotted yet. You won't get to witness the casualties you are causing but the barrage will be effective. Especially abuse infantry advancing over open ground. I like to call in all my arty on one troop concentration to really blast them. You have to let the other areas of the front come unchecked while you are doing this but you can switch to them while the first victims are still sorting themselves out after the barrage. Creeping barrage is best to keep the fire going but same rules go for on map arty - shoot and scoot. This will reduce the amount of fire you can put out but you won't be able to put out any fire if you get blasted by enemy arty. You only have to move about 4-5 hexes to be out of the way of the incoming artillery barrage. That's only 1 turn (or 2 if your slow) of movement between each barrage. Set most of your pre-plotted artillery points to be on your own victory hexes.

Finally you'll slaughter enough men and there will be enough burning vehicles strewn about that the enemy advance will first stall and then the entire enemy force will begin to rout. Retake the victory hexes in reverse order and shell the crap out of them the whole way back off the map as well. Use the armored cars you've been holding in reserve to dash forward and snatch up the remaining victory hexes in the last few turns of the mission.

Final note - don't get delusions of grandeur and take your armored forces behind enemy lines to take out their artillery. There are all sorts of unpleasantries back there like AA and AT guns that you don't have the time or resources to deal with.

Applying these principles has turned around the delay mission for me and now it is one of my favorites. To reinforce the most important point - don't defend the entire front because you don't have enough forces to do so.










ACC / KILL / PEN / HEAT / APCR / RANGE / WARHEAD
14 / 11:00 / 3:18 / 0 / 18 / 70:70 / 5

accuracy of the weapon is 14

The HE kill value is 11 ( first number ), AP kill is zero(second number )

Pentration for HE is 3 cm and for AP it's 18 cm

Heat has zero penetration so no heat ammo for that weapon

apcr is sabot and sabot for this weapon has an 18 pen

Range for both He and AP is 70 ( first number) and sabot is also 70 ( second number )

warhead is 5

As Andy says, more detailed info is found in the "Encyclopaedia Screen" link of the Game Guide and scroll down to the "weapon" block.

Don




Although based on the modern US Army their field manuals are available, and useful references FMs

ATG that cannot see you cannot kill you. So deny them LOS.

The best way to ensure that the ATG cannot see you is to smoke them off or perform a night/fog assault, and/or make your attack through a wood/town/city/large village or a defile.

ATG are vulnerable to infantry fire, sniper fire and long-range MMG fires. Above all, they are vulnerable to shellfire. So your best antidote to ATG is artillery, and the second best is infantry weapons.

If you are assaulting/advancing then your artillery is your primary weapon system. Allow one battery per company, and one section of mortars per rifle company as a minimum.

You will need a minimum of a batallion of arty (18 tubes)for the barrage group and another for the hammer group. More is better - "Quantity has a quality all of its own" (Iosef Stalin) .

Smoke off the enemy front line to cover your approach, and drop HE on suspected enemy positions as you approach your break-in point. Blow the poo out of the approach path to your chosen breakthrough point with the barrage arty group while it is not yet time to fire the creeping barrage mission. Against a human defender - consider firing a fake barrage away from the intended point of attack as you approach.

Arrange a walking barrage (use the arty screen to shift fires incrementally to make the creeping barrage) on a small front (say 10-15 hexes) where you will be breaking into the enemy positions, and make the barrage depth about 3-500 metres deep, though with most guns firing on the main barrage line - the deeper guns are to pin troops, and murder any retreaters. Dismount your infantry at your edge of the creeping barrage, apcs to follow and tanks about 5 hexes behind, and then follow close behind the barrage into the enemy position. The infantry deal with any stunned (hopefully)enemy found in the beaten zone, with the tanks there to support. You walk behind the barrage at infantry pace (2 hexes per turn), nice and slow so the barrage has a decent dwell time on each lift. Artillery has a better neutralising effect if applied to the treated area for at least 2-3 turns.

If your breakthrough zone has open flanks (you dont have a village or wood to screen say) - then drop smoke along the edges of your penetration to screen it off.

HE fire will also cause obscuration - so HE bombardment will cause some obscuration of enemy LOS as well as keeping the enemy heads down.

The best place to break through is usually in a wood or large village (or along one edge of same) to get the terrain masking if some smoke gets blown away by the wind leaving you exposed in the open.

Assaulting through close terrain, with your infantry leading will find any enemy ATG etc at close range and confronted with troops the ATG dont like dealing with (grunts) while screening your tanks with both the terrain and the leading grunts.

Another good place too attack through is a narrow valley (defile) as then the ATG outside the defile cannot see to shoot at you. A defile gives you flank security on both sides, so all you have to do is march the barrage through it, and clear the valley sides.

Assign about half your arty to counterbattery of any on-map arty found firing at you, and if some does shoot - assign the whole lot as a "fireblow" on one revealed arty battery position at a time - dont sprinkle it about in penny-packets. That also includes any ATG that reveal themselves - even if you have not got the exact location, smoke off the LOS and drop the hammer on them with the entire CB allocation, that usually discourages them somewhat!. The CB group should contain some long-range offmap arty (with higher than average skill levels) to stay silent in order to fire CB on off-map enemy arty, if you can spare 2 or 3 of these batteries (good use for any core arty that has gained loads of experience in a campaign). These reserved batteries are a good way of holding some ammo in hand in case of shortages later in the battle.

Once you have deployed your troops behind the rolling barrage and have begun marching through the beaten zone, then use the CB bunch to drop fire-blows in the depth of the direction your walking barrage will be going through (essentiallly a second barrage wave preceeding the main one by perhaps 10-15 hexes, perhaps spread to twice the width to pre-prepare the corridor) or to pound the flanks of your penetration corridor for security or to discourage or disrupt counter-attacks (especially if playing a human). If more arty or ATG appear then pull the CB group off the deep fire mission and mallet these, then return to deep/supporting fires as necessary.

Go for one objective cluster, deal with that, leave a covering force to hold it and then rinse and repeat the process for the remaining clusters. (against a human player probably make some feints with lighter/reserve forces against the others to ensure he keeps forces there rather than drawing them off to deal with the breakthrough).

Naturally - not all your troops will be immediatel behind the barrage. a company of infantry will do as "beaters" with tank support (a comapny perhaps), the rest of the force should be in column behind ready to feed fresh troops as required, guard against flank counter-attacks etc.

MRL - if you have them - are best used on troops moving in the open, so are much better weapons for the defender than the attacker. MRL are a wonderful "assault breaker", and a perfect antidote to the above strategy of the narrow-front insertion behind a barrage, if you are a human defender vs a human attacker trying the above. A few MRL just behind the barrage line should annoy the tight pack of troops there !.

Naturally as an attacker in such a scenario - any defenders MRL that reveal themselves are a prime target for your CB hammer group. If you are an attacker, then a few MRL can be useful to break up any counter attacks by the defender. However - since refilling them takes time, then they are definately an auxiliary weapon.

MRL are a wonderful counter battery/counter mortar toy for both sides (especially if the enemy is not dug in, or is using ammo trucks or dumps alongside or near the battery position ).

As the attacker - use any MRL in your CB group for CB fires and depth fireblows. They are too innacurate to use in the barrage line, as the danger-close zone for these is so big that if you do this you will suffer too many friendly casualties from the inevitable drop-shorts. Also, MRL fire in "burps" as the reloading takes time, and the point of the barrage is continuous fire. If you want to use MRL in the rolling barrage - then fire them in waves, some firing, some retiring to the ammo zone to reload etc, so some fraction of the batery is available to shoot each move.

Only use MRL in close support if your troops are dug in, and the enemy is mingled inside your defensive positions while in the open. Otherwise, never drop MRL within 10 hexes (500m) of friendlies I would say, or 5 hexes if you have an observer with "eyes on" the target hex.

MRL tend to draw CB fires - so move them about.

Your infantry mortars can be added to the barrage (in which case use them in the depth of the beaten zone, as pinners and retreater killers rather than in the main barrage line), or to CB (especially counter-mortar) tasks if long enough range - but in the early stages they ae best used as screening smoke layers. Sections of mortars are useful to annoy any small units of enemy found that dont warrant the full hammer-blow of your CB&strike arty group. If playing a human defender they are useful to fire in "pepper pot" mode sprinkled randomly along any routes you think that he is moving troops up to counter-attack you, or as "murderers" if you think there is a mass rout of enemy infantry - drop them deep behind to chase and harras the retreat further.


MRL are an excellent murder weapon on routers and retreaters - so if you think there is a rout in progress, drop them behind the contact line to execute the runaways, like mortars. They can be quite good as "pepper pot" weapons as well.

Also - firing the on-map mortars while witholding any on-map MRL/Arty for later use may tempt him to reveal his arty positions if he fires CB on them.

If you can - move your on-map arty about to avoid enemy CB fires. If you have access to self-propelled kit, this makes it easier to do.

So - that is the basic tactic for the assault. If you have a ridiculous amount of arty (USSR, BCE USA etc) then you might allow yourself 2 penetration points (or a wider penetration).

The advantage of the creeping barrage method is that you really only have to decide on the right place to attack. As it will be done at walking pace then there is no real need for open terrain. In fact close terrain is better as it lessens the need for smoke shoots. You do not really have to analyse possible enemy placements, since the barrage will be used to "mow the lawn" of any defenders placed ahead of your attack, and the screening terrain and/or smoke will blind the remainder. No need for any recce either ! - use any light recce to watch for counterattacks etc from an overwatch position.

Cheers
Andy


AT guns in this game should have a life expectancy right up there with gazelles at a lion convention. smoke 'em and shell 'em. i never buy them against a human player because they are fragile, pricey (compare the cost of ATG+truck vs. a similarly armed tank) and relatively immobile. they get off shots for one, maybe two turns and are history. [loading units can't move far especially in cover/rough and loaded ATGs are way vulnerable to arty.] and they can't move AND shoot! since the advent of "move penalty to load" (a good thing btw) their value has declined even more. i believe infantry AT is a much better buy.

other than another (approrpriately armed and armored) AFV the most effective AT unit in the game is, IMHO, infantry. though this is less true against human opponents than the AI. human opponents typically don't run AFVs into dense cover unsupported so they can be close-assaulted.

the best AT guns are those with no HE ammo as they won't pop off (disclosing their presence) at soft targets. the A/C recon types earn their keep by drawing ATG fire (and yeah, they get crushed) before pricier types get dinged.

beating ATGs basically involves terrain appraisal. 1. don't run AFVs where an ATG would have good LOS at "killing range". 2. look for spots in enemy controlled terrain that offer opportunitites for item 1. stay off the ridgelines! if i have an ATG fire at me more than once (from the same position) i am embarrassed.

avoiding heavy AT is all about proper scouting. scouts do more than find enemy units; they're actually best at finding AT effective-range LOS hexes. i use them in "series" the "1" unit first the "0" second. once the "1" unit gains a good spot it moves on and the "0" unit moves to that hex to observe for indirect fire.

against human opponents move so as to be able to to "see" (LOS) good ATG placement hexes:

1. forward-screened hexes that provide good north/south (flank) shooting
2. hexes that have no LOS to other hexes within small arms range [small arms are ATG killers]
3. hexes that have an ADJACENT concealed hex (good for retreating suppressed crews to or for parking carriers OR for placing ammo trucks, if you use ammo trucks.)

etc.

on many maps there are remarkably few GOOD spots to place heavy ATGs. do the devil's advocate thing, i.e. "where wouldn't i want one to be" and against a human player it's probably there.

against the AI shell the whole area suspected of ATGs because where there is one there will be another (or two).

MGs were formerly more effective in area fire ("z" key) against potential ATG positions but they're still not bad.

when you're in ATG country use "locked" smoke from IDF weapons. [plot the smoke and turn the weapons slot off, "blue"]. the smoke stays plotted, won't fire and is available with minimal delay. don't fire the smoke until you have scouted LOS's first to determine likely/acutal ATG positions.

against a human player once you have a good idea about where the ATG is, pile in the HE and keep it coming. ATGs are very high value targets (and fragile) so they can provide pretty generous "kill points". they can't move easily. if they're capable of unassisted movement any such movement makes them more vulnerable and if loaded on a carrier even MORE vulnerable. against the AI it doesn't matter because the AI doesn't move arty much other than retreating and will never LOAD arty onto a carrier.

when buying arty/indirect don't "overbuy the map". get your money's worth. part of unit cost is range. why buy an on-map gun with a range of 120+ hexes if playing on (e.g.) a 50hx70w map?

to me, the scariest AT pieces (against a human) are [early war] the GB 2 pounder and [mid war] the GB 6 pounder. the GE 88 is vastly overrated (game-wise), not to mention over-priced. it's almost too expensive to expose to fire of any sort. human players spend more time hiding them than shooting them! (I know I did.)

the worst situation is probably heavily wooded terrain. elevation is tough to recognize visually and running the cursor over the map and reading hex heights is tedious. either be thorough or resign yourself to some losses or scout like crazy.

a little trick you can try against a human opponent if you HAVE ATGs. when the opponent fires smoke to screen your ATGs off, let it work. if he has scoped out where you are the HE is coming and you can't do much about that. if he put the smoke in the wrong place, hold fire for a turn or two. he'll pile the HE in on the wrong hex and feel safe in leaving his armor exposed where it is. maybe he'll even move more into the same area. oh happy day.

caution, this usually works only once...don't push it.

give this stuff a shot and i think you'll be fine.

best,
vic

sample cost data:

GE 5cm PaK = 38, truck = 12, total = 50
vs.
GE Pz IIIj = 61, plus better mobility (tracked), move & shoot, armor, MGs etc.

my estimate of a reasonable (what i'd be willing to pay) cost for the ATG+truck combination is 15-20, more if you feel the truck has additional value as ancillary transport (i.e. other units).

GE 88mm FlaK 18 (HE/AP 50/20) = 68
Ammo truck (unlimited ammo) = 25

GE 88mm FlaK 36 (HE/AP 20/50) = 109
same weapon (#59) so who buys the 36? one would be lucky to get off 12 shots from either and IF one could move successfully a quick stop to "reload" solves the ammo difference.


I love spotter planes when playing the Germans to, allows you to cover ground with cheap "eyes on" that you might not be able to cover otherwise due to always being outnumbered. My favorite tactics:

1. Use a plane to keep an eye on an open flank well away from enemy AAA. This allows you to concentrate your forces on one wing of the enemy while still allowing you to redeploy a reserve if the AI tries a sneaky flank attack.

2. Think SEAD- no fancy missiles here but if you have the numbers you can use a cheapish ground attack plane to recce the enemy defences before supressing them with Arty and/or Stukas allowing your Spotters to fly around unmolested for several turns depending on how much AAA they have.

3.Remeber a storch is a terribly vulnerable thing with no real armour at all, fly it into harms way and they will go down. The Uhl is better armoured but can't stand up to much more than light AAMG fire. Remember to use the air entry/exist point to avoid knwon AAA postions or enenmy held Rear area objective hexs which are nearly always defended by AAA.

4. Light ,espiallyy self propelled AA is good tool for the Germans to with or without an enemy air threat. They can make mince meat out of a massed inf attack in the open if used right, I have at least a plt's worth in my core.

Hope this helps.

[Imp]

Well you are approaching this the right way getting as much info as you can give it time & it will come. Take any suggestions as ideas though this is not an RTS game with obvious winning tactics, there is no one road to victory path rather loads of diffrent tactics depending on many factors & as you develop you will learn more. Hard game to master if you ever trully do you will get the basics down pretty quick then a couple of years later you will be playing diffrently because you have developed.
Remember just like you are doing here one of your most powerful tools is infomation so use those scouts & gather it. Patience can be a virtue to just because you can start fighting if delaying one turn gets extra forces involved it might be worth it, decisive blows cost a lot less men than drawn out firefights.

[DRG]

Keep the games small to start. Don't try 40,000 points on the largest map. Try 1000 points or so on a 40x40 map to get a feel for it.

Don

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by Soldiercrush

I am new at this game and I can see people have been playing for years. I am trying to read everything I can, and play alot to make many mistakes to learn from. Can some of you pro's post some of your basic strats? Range--smoke--etc.... TYpes of units

I really need some help?

THanks in advance!

None of those are "strategies" - all are minor tactics.

Read the Game Guide -> game play notes section. Also, in the MBT forum, try the sticky thread "I need tactical help".

Remember that this is a tactical level game - so search for "tactics". A strategic level game would be e.g. hearts of Iron where you are assigning factory production etc.

A quick google of "WW2 infantry tactics" gave several results, and this site looks useful: http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/...rld_war_tw.htm


Andy

[nuNce]

If you have the will, you can go through Larry Holt's Tactics Guide. It has been written for an old version of Steel Panthers World at War, but many concepts are useful not just for WW2, but for any wargame I'd say.

[codman]

You poor devil! You have opened Pandora's box and soon your life will be ruined...

Actually you'll find that you've discovered a rather addictive game that through the tireless efforts of it's loyal supporters will give you years of pleasure. You'll also find that here, there are many folks with years of experience who are more than willing to offer good advice as I'm sure you've already noticed.

The big thing is to just play, learn and have fun. One of the things that has kept me hooked for ages is just the ability to create new engagements on new maps so long campaigns are a blast and things don't get stale as you sometimes find in other games.

As for newbie strategy, I'd suggest that it never hurts to flirt with the Gods of the Tubes as experienced artillery support is a real plus if you get into any self generated campaigns.

Good luck - Steve