Starting core battle points

[gila]

I'm newbie to this game,
Would appreciate any advice,
What is a good # battle points to start on a long campaign?
Seems i start to low apparently,
Just when i think i have a battle under control,I get annihilated when the hordes of enemy swarm all over!
I prefer a small core to begin with.

[DRG]

It would be helpful for everyone to know who you like to play as and the opponents you are having difficulty with

[PanzerBob]

I'm willing to bet he's playing as the Germans and the hordes are the Poles. The last time I played this one. To start, (2000 some odd points IIRC)I had a Coy of Recce, 2Coys of Motorized Infantry (trucks) and a Coy of Panzers with some AAA and 3 Bttys of 10.5cm Guns. Infantry and HE (through MG's, Tanks and Arty) are the key here. IMHO

Bob out

[gila]

Originally Posted by PanzerBob

I'm willing to bet he's playing as the Germans and the hordes are the Poles. The last time I played this one. To start, (2000 some odd points IIRC)I had a Coy of Recce, 2Coys of Motorized Infantry (trucks) and a Coy of Panzers with some AAA and 3 Bttys of 10.5cm Guns. Infantry and HE (through MG's, Tanks and Arty) are the key here. IMHO

Bob out

Yea,the poles are tough and wreak havoc with their AT squads that seem to pop from nowhere.
My problem was starting a campaign as US side,
I understand the differences, i should have made that clear.
I started with a core of 1500.
I started current campaign with,
9 fighting patrols(with halftracks)
1 Co.of stuarts
1 platoon of grants
1 platoon of armed infantry (mobile)
and platoon of spa.
is this a good starting core force?
Thanks for your advice

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by gila

Yea,the poles are tough and wreak havoc with their AT squads that seem to pop from nowhere.
My problem was starting a campaign as US side,
I understand the differences, i should have made that clear.
I started with a core of 1500.
I started current campaign with,
9 fighting patrols(with halftracks)
1 Co.of stuarts
1 platoon of grants
1 platoon of armed infantry (mobile)
and platoon of spa.
is this a good starting core force?
Thanks for your advice

I'll assume that you are starting vs the Nazis in Operation Torch, end of 42.

Stuarts were cannon fodder for the Nazis when introduced in UK service in 11/41. By now the Germans have lots of 50L60 and 75mm armed vehicles, not the 50mm L42 of 1941. Avoid in big open desert type terrain, like N Africa.

The Grant/Lee is just about viable at this point. However, you have access to the Sherman, which for a very brief period was a quite competitive tank against the panzer 3s with L60 50mm. (10/42 to about middle of 43). Buy Shermans!. Shermans will dominate the P3s at 500-1000 metres, you can sit still and let them come to you, if you plink any panzer 4 specials (long 75) first - you can drive through the 50mm front turret armour at over a Km. However, stugs with their class 8 frontal armour and long 75 are dangerous - run away and try for flank shots.

(Aside - me likes these stug thingys in 42/43 when playing as Gerry !)

Your tank destroyers are carp, till the m10 arrives in early 1943. Fargos and half tracks are kill rings for the German tanks. US towed ATG are not worth having.

9 teams of mech scouts??!! - suggest one(1) at the most per company HQ fielded.


Suggest: (1500 points, USA 11/43 N Africa)
HQ
Leg FOO
105mm battery (off map)

1 Inf coy (garands)
+ 1 medium tank section (M4)

1 Inf coy (Garands)
+ 1 Medium Tank section (M4)

1 Medium tank Platoon (M4)

leaves about 30 points to buy something like a scout, or a sniper.

Operate the 2 leg coys with their attached (use the HQ menu to attach each section to a rifle co HQ in battle 1 deployment) medium tank section always together as a lump. Use the 5 tank platoon as your manoeuvre element.

With only 2 company teams, operate against 2 objective clusters close to each other, and leave the third for later and only if casualties permit.

Buy some support ammo carriers to feed your 60mm mortars in the early battles, and maybe trucks to move them forwards (short range). Consider upgrading to 81mm when spare points allow - for the range. When attacking, then buy support half track units, one or 2 such per rifle coy will do to shuttle the platoons forwards in relays.

When you get enough points, and it is 1/43 then buy a section of 2 M10 GMC as supports for each rifle co group (or upgrade the 2 tank close support medium tank sections). You will appreciate the 76mm gun should the Nazis field some Tigers against you in Tunisia. M10 double plus good piece of kit, provided you keep clear of arty fire (open lid)!. Get some bazookas as soon as you can too (3/43). Maybe then think about a mech infantry platoon to join up with the tank platoon later in 43 to give a balanced mobile force. Get the 76mm Shermans as soon as available. M10 to 90mm when available, maybe to pershing for the final push into Germany proper.

Keep saving up points till you can afford your third company - a Sherman company (pure) probably, or a mech inf/tank coy team if so desired. I find the one mech inf platoon enough myself though. Use as a mobile reserve when defending.

AAA - The Germans will not be bringing significant air strikes in for the rest of the war. The mounted 50 cals that almost all your vehicles carry may well suffice against any nuisance raids.

Arty - the USA was big on arty, so get another 105mm (on or off map) bty, you can justify one battery per company HQ + 1 for the bn HQ in this core!. When attacking, buy 155mm support (they will mangle the tigers just fine). SOP for any Tiger sighting - immediately assign all tubes and keep repeating the dosage till the tiger problem is reduced to individual rivets and bolts. In your start period, treat the panzer 4 specials and any long 75 stugs as for tigers i.e. arty magnets.

Cheers
Andy

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by PanzerBob

I'm willing to bet he's playing as the Germans and the hordes are the Poles. The last time I played this one. To start, (2000 some odd points IIRC)I had a Coy of Recce, 2Coys of Motorized Infantry (trucks) and a Coy of Panzers with some AAA and 3 Bttys of 10.5cm Guns. Infantry and HE (through MG's, Tanks and Arty) are the key here. IMHO

Bob out

The Poles have the old WW1 type half-platoon sections. big lumps of grunts, which is their weakness. A section is a candidate for dispersal when 1/3 are left - so these will vanish when reduced to about 6 men. Each one pinned ties down 19 men too.

Best tactic is to gun them down in the open with arty, mortars and MMG fires. "Spread the joy" as well - go for making them all into retreat mode or worse, fire 2-3 shots at 2-3 teams and only worry about killing the squads when they are all broken.

If advancing against them in a meeting engagement, then form a line with your Germans and let the Poles come to you. You will tend to spot them a reasonable distance off if visibility is good, so set up a firing line when they are outside 500m and wait. I do not bother firing my riflemen at the large Polish lumps and usually leave them with all 6 shots for opportunity fire, positioned in rough ground or woods or other cover if possible. The accompanying armour and the company MMG teams pound the advancing AI infantry, and arty is called in on them too. Once they are all seen to be fleeing, then resume the advance. If some get "frisky", halt and shoot them up, while still maintaining fire on the runners to keep them doing so.

Don't try to tussle with them in woods or buildings because here the mega-sections are a strength in the close quarter battle. If you do have to 1) double your German sections up in the same hex and meet the advancing AI Poles stationary and 2) direct mortar fires 2-4 hexes out in front of your infantry line to break up his approach and 3) if possible, add a panzer 1 or 2 in the same hex as 2 rifle sections along the line too!. Don't advance into a wood/town against possible Polish infantry defences - unless you have pounded the carp out of the intended approach path with as much arty as you can spare (at least 8 tubes worth over a 5/6 hex corridor), for 3-4 turns at least.

Make sure you have a mortar section or inf gun section per tank or infantry company fielded as a bare minimum when fighting 1939 Poles, and a reasonable amount of ammo supply. Add at least 1 battery of medium arty (on or off map) too. Each rifle company should bring an MMG section to the party.

Always precede your advances with scouts 2-3 hexes ahead of the infantry line (weapons set to range 1 so they don't give themselves away). That finds any nasty ATR teams (usually..). Keep the armour behind the infantry line - never lead with armour!. Keep a mortar section busy firing a belt of HE in front of your scouts planned advance by 4-6 hexes even if you cannot yet see anyone - once someone is spotted you can then quickly adjust the fire.

Panzer 1, 2 are good vs the Polish infantry, once you have removed their tank threat with your main line armour. Once the Polish armour is removed, it is job done really. The Panzer 3e with all the AAMG is good too, as both a main line tank and grunt killer (extra MG can do no harm!). Any 75mm P4 you have should stand back and lob shells into any spotted infantry concentrations (remember the 75mm suppresses in the adjacent hex, like MMG sections and the P2s auto cannon do). Spread the fires from the 75mm cannon - go for any squads with plenty of "neighbours" to annoy over isolated ones.

As support those little armoured cars with 120 rounds of TMG ammo are good value as anti-grunt toys too. Use the 222 if you think you may have some tankettes to kill. Otherwise the 221 is about half the price. Just keep them away from any sort of AT weapon, including ATR. I usually allow 1 section of 2 of these little armoured cars per company HQ fielded, and I don't use them as scouts to trip over the enemy but held to the rear till the tanks are eliminated and they can then trundle up and support the infantry with MG fires from no closer than 3 or so hexes. However, once the Poles are in general retreat then they can charge into the pack of routed enemy, mow some down and hopefully get some surrenders from other retreaters in adjacent hexes.

Each main line tank platoon - 5 tanks - you can allow a section of Pz1/2 if you have the points. Use them to follow the MBT which will protect them from any nasty Polish armour. But ensure you are up to strength on indirect arty first before spending support points on these.

I don't use tank riders. I do use tanks to move infantry "administratively" in the advance but always ensure the troops are off and where they should be - on foot - before contact.

Mech infantry can be useful if used with caution. They are very vulnerable to AT weaponry. They are expensive, so points spent on these give the AI more points to buy toys with too. Players seem to like to "zoom about" with mech infantry - which tends to them finding unspotted enemy and getting a hand grenade deposited into the half track. If enemy infantry are likely, then keep speed down to maybe 3-4 hexes. Your spotting chance will be better!. Once the enemy tank threat is known to be eliminated they can join the support tanks in gunning down enemy grunts. Best held in deep reserve in the early battle and brought forward later to exploit onto the objectives when the Poles are in general retreat. Also good for running into packs of routed enemy and taking names in the end game. Don't go nuts with mech inf - a platoon or 2 acting alongside a tank coy tasked with deep penetration is probably enough.

Andy

[PanzerBob]

Some great advice all around Andy.

I have found Campaigning as the US Army to be difficult and one must be ready to take casualties. I have found what Andy has laid out to be true, especially in regards to bazookas and artillery. I find with the US your Infanteers are your AT force and if you don't have bazookas then ensure you have some Engineers along for the ride.

I have not played that Campaign for a while......mmmmmmmmmm


Bob out

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

Great advices Andy, i'll start a campaign with those tips and see if it gets "easyer", btw: why the hell everytime i start a campaign i get some meeting engagements in the first battles, and i seem unable to get a amphibious landing chance, is it possible?

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by iCaMpWiThAWP

Great advices Andy, i'll start a campaign with those tips and see if it gets "easyer", btw: why the hell everytime i start a campaign i get some meeting engagements in the first battles, and i seem unable to get a amphibious landing chance, is it possible?

Because the first 3 battles will be meeters - it "bled" through into the WW2 LC and Generated campaigns from the PBEM campaign code as an unintended side effect. I'll see if the normal service can be resumed for batles 1-3 in a non PBEM campaign.

Andy

[gila]

2000 seems about right,
But here's a question within the question,
How many battle points starting for the AI?
Starting with the default setting?is that the lowest setting or is that higher than the next higher 250?
Iv'e tested at 2000 and the AI at 250 and saw little difference maybe even harder!
In SPWaW i started even and increased the AI battle points as the campaign progressed.
But giving the AI 2000 scares me!
Defualt here seems a little tough