MP: ComfortZone - All MA Nations - Running

[Calahan]

Yeah, a sub for Jotunheim was never a likely possibility IMO, and only stood a remote chance if an 'active sub-finding' approach was taken, rather than a passive one.

A difficult call now with regards the result. My impression during my first stint in this game as C'tis (roughly turns 65-80) was that Mictlan was easily the dominant nation, and if Jotunheim had dropped out at that stage I would have had no problem declaring Mictlan the winner. But my second stint in the game as Atlantis (roughly turns 85-present) has seen Jotunheim certainly level the scale, and maybe even take the upper hand IMO. My impression is that the Jotunheim-Mictlan war will literally go on forever unless a significant other force intervenes on proceedings (namely Atlantis in this case)

But then again, if alhorro wants to play on for the win, and he has no opponent, then that's a win in my books no questions asked. He's certainly battled long and hard in this game against good opposition, so there's certainly no questions about having not earned a win properly.

So I'd pass the call on this to alhorro personally. If he feels he has done enough to claim the win here, then it's a win. If he feels he doesn't realistically have the resources to overcome Jotunheim from the current position given a competent opponent, then it's a draw.

[vfb]

As the original C'tis, I must say that alhorro really cleaned my clock! I'm eternally grateful to him for the painful lessons on efficient tartarian-destroying. Your cheaply-equipped Sea King SC was very cool too! Did he survive to the end? A well-deserved victory IMO.

Thanks to Cleveland too, for teaching me to ignore the "weak" nation of Man at my peril. And thanks to Calahan for subbing C'tis and teaching me some neat tricks with them too, in the process.

Final thanks go to Pelthin for taking over as the final leader of the doomed lizards (I think).

[alhorro]

Actually I expected Atlantis to win. Duncan posted his income — 500 gems & 500 slaves, I had a bit less, and we both had been burning resources at war, while Atlanis should have had much more. However we all had been using different strategies — Jotun had several Seraphs and LEGIONS of different fighters and mages, I had about 15 geared teleporting tartarians and 2 teleporting ME communions, and nobody knows what Atlantis had in the sleeve. As I've already mentioned, the game has only become interesting for me by the end. I don't know why people often consider endgame to be a stalemate — it's just a scaling, and someone inevitably wins — we're just using full-buffed demons instead of naked chaff, SCs instead of elite troops, S12 communions instead of A2 mages and FFtS instead of Seeking Arrows.

cheaply-equipped Sea King SC was very cool too! Did he survive to the end?

I had three Kings, and they all "survived" to the end... as HoF Mummies. One of them had Heroic Quickness with 6 swings per turn, he was a real death machine even at the endgame (:

[Calahan]

I think Atlantis has/had a pretty decent outside shot at winning right now. I felt I was certainly gaining ground at a fair pace due to the top guys expending/losing their resources against each other. And it was probably only my RL time constraints that prevented me from gaining ground quicker.

Off the top of my head, I think I was pulling in around 400 Astral each turn on average. ~200 from clams (adding 8 per turn) and ~200 from the Nexus. But all I was finding the RL time for each turn was to empty my lab, summon/recruit new equipment holders, summon several other things, and sort out battles for R'yleh. I was probably missing out on ~200 Astral per turn from the Nexus just by not having the RL time to use my ~4000 non Astral/blood stockpile in a productive way.

I had 5-6 wish casters, and was usually wishing about 3-4 times per turn. But the only thing I had time to wish for were gems, hence my gem mountains at the end. Anything else would have required me to have time to plan something more concrete. I was also summoning about 6 Juggernaughts each turn, and had about 50 by the end IIRC. Would have been interesting to see how quickly my dominion would have started ramping up had the game continued. There were already some signs of that happening on the graphs, and predicting Ulm's dominion would have fallen within the next 10 turns (especially with my many Stone Idol scout carriers in their land)

My plan for winning was probably going to be based on mass Armageddon's at some point soon, to both eliminate the blood hunting of my rivals (since I had no chance of getting a blood economy going, and could always Wish for slaves), plus it would be a good way of leveraging my S9 Bless (since every commander had a shroud by the end). And then perhaps gaining as much ground as possible against the minor nations, before turning on the strongest out of the remaining two. As I'd suspect/rely on neither of the two leaders wanting to start a war against me, as that could jeopardise their victory chances by having me side with their main rival.

But all those things are just unknowns now I guess, plus I would have had to devote a ridiculous amount of time to this game to have had a shot at winning. And that's time I am unlikely to have for quite a while (hence my attempt to sub-out this position in order for someone with time to do it justice).

Ah well, thanks for having me as sub, and well played duncanshriek and alhorro, with the latter getting my congrats for the win

Catch you all again in some future games.

[Valerius]

Based on the feedback I guess I won't post this game in the victorious nations thread. If there are no objections, I'll delete the game from the llamaserver in a couple of days.

Good game, everyone.

[alhorro]

Well, if my opponents still can't continue playing after some rest and my persuasion attempts — that means I won. Technical knockout still counts. Not that I care much about HoF, but let it be a lesson for everyone, that MM Hell is much more fearsome, than Cocytos and Inferno combined }:[

[Valerius]

Originally Posted by alhorro

Well, if my opponents still can't continue playing after some rest and my persuasion attempts — that means I won. Technical knockout still counts.

Well, as you can see from the comments above I don't think anyone objects to that. It was mainly your own opinion that inclined me not to post the win. But I will add the game to the victorious nations thread and delete it from the llamaserver this weekend.

Originally Posted by alhorro

...but let it be a lesson for everyone, that MM Hell is much more fearsome, than Cocytos and Inferno combined }:[

I don't think you need to worry about that. Plenty of players fear late game MM - myself included. I'll certainly never join another large game like this. It's fun at the beginning with different wars going on all over the map, but if you survive until the end it's tedious.

[rabelais]

so who won this?

atlantis? really? I thought I had killed most of their mages. Good show, if they recovered.

[Valerius]

Alhorro/Mictlan won by concession. Duncanshriek did a nice job taking over from you and eventually the two superpowers, Jotun and Mictlan, met and fought it out until Jotun had had enough. A good game until the end when the large map and clams made the whole thing tedious.