Thank you Stormbinder!

[Annette]

Oh my word, Arryn. I usually don't get involved in these discussions, but your post caught my eye and I feel compelled to speak. I disagree that Illwinter may be compared to Paradox. Dominions 2 has been said to offer "the most gameplay of any 4X game available anywhere" (Computer Gaming World, Sept '04).

And please don't compare Shrapnel Games with Strategy First. Paradox has dumped SF - the grapevine intimates because of unpaid royalties (http://www.wargamer.com/news/news.asp?nid=1002).
Stardock left for that reason (http://www.joeuser.com/index.asp?c=1&AID=21895&u=0). Just this week, LegendStudios posted on their forums:

"Strategy First Inc, our North America publisher, have not paid us a single cent since we sign our contract and what's more, they have not spend anything in ads and the distribution of the game is even worse (that's why the servers were not very busy). There is no way to get the game in big stores and even Amazon takes 2 months to deliver! Completely amazing.

So due to this situation and the economical problem we are suffering, we are forced to close our servers for Internet gaming. We have tried to arrange a solution with Strategy First but they refuse to find a solution."
(http://www.lsgames.com/wartimes/eng/...opic.php?t=243)

Don't be fooled by appearances. It's not how much money (or the number of programmers) a company has that makes it successful. It's understanding your product, your market and your customers that's key to successful publishing. And it's creativity, intellegence and dedication which make development teams great.

Just my dollar and 2 cents...

[Arryn]

You're quite welcome, Gandalf.

Despite my saying that JK is not a "professional" programmer, he's apparently a better one than many of the CS-degreed migrant laborers (what I call the Indian and Chinese H-1Bs) I've had the dubious "pleasure" to work with. And, if one considers the term "professional" to mean that he gets paid for what he does, then JK is, indeed, a professional. Coding not being his day job notwithstanding.

Kudos to JK and KO.

Of course, my admiration for what they've done doesn't stop me from wishing IW had a professional GUI coder.

[Wyxard]

I still don't understand why someone would cheat?
If I play chess and give myself all queens, so I always win, how is this fun? why would Norfleet or anyone do this? where is the reward to winning if you cheat? these people ruin the games for everyone and waste a lot of our time. <end of rant>

[Gandalf Parker]

Of course, my admiration for what they've done doesn't stop me from wishing IW had a professional GUI coder.

A professional GUI coder? Or a Windows GUI coder? (just razzing)

[Arryn]

Sorry, Annette. I had absolutely no intention of offending. Personally, I detest Strategy First. They have lousy customer support. Perhaps I should have made that point in my post. Another SF case of unpaid royalties involves JA2:Wildfire.

And I agree with:

It's not how much money (or the number of programmers) a company has that makes it successful. It's understanding your product, your market and your customers that's key to successful publishing. And it's creativity, intellegence and dedication which make development teams great.

But in all honesty, computer gaming is a business, and money does matter. Having more of it certainly doesn't hurt. Assuming that the points you mention are covered first, of course. Case in point for a failure on all counts is Atari, Quicksilver, and MOO3. Large budget and bad everything else. I won't rehash the details, they are very well known.

BTW, my comparison of IW to Paradox was intended to show how a small dev shop can grow. IW is by far a better shop than Paradox. And Paradox is better than most others. (What that says about most others I'll leave to your imagination.)

[Gandalf Parker]

Oh my word, Arryn. I usually don't get involved in these discussions, but your post caught my eye and I feel compelled to speak.

Heehee Arryn brought Annette out of lurk mode. I can just picture her hands on her hips and fire in her eyes. That was interesting info though.

[Arryn]

A professional GUI coder? Or a Windows GUI coder? (just razzing)

I'd settle for someone who's not UI-phobic. (just razzing back)

[Arryn]

Heehee Arryn brought Annette out of lurk mode. I can just picture her hands on her hips and fire in her eyes. That was interesting info though.

Nice to know I serve a purpose. hehe

Indeed it was. I happen to play HoI, and I'm curious as to what this means for HoI2 which is in dev now? I hadn't known that Paradox had dumped SF. Good for Paradox. If they have any brains they'll sign with Shrapnel. Or at least Matrix (cough, choke).

[Gandalf Parker]

See? No difference from the players perspective. The only difference is that cheat is impossible. If you don't believe, try me! Tell me how you would cheat with the above setup?

That would be very possible. The give/take would be the processing requirements being higher at the host end but for a pbem game that isnt supposed to matter. The solo players might hate it but they are low on the considerations anyway. Might even possible to have a level of checking avialable so that solo or hot-seat players dont have to wait for it.

Another nice advantage is that if everything is stored by commands instead of interface/results, it might open the door for scripting which would open the door for programmed bots which would open the door for player-programmed AIs. But lets not go there today.

If I were to make such a game, I would make at least these separate components:

• libdom2rules --- the actual game engine, which knows about gems, spell, movements and so on.
• dom2processor --- Uses libdomrules to processes turn files into new turn data files, ready to be sent to the client
• client --- Can represent the client
• ipserver --- Accepts files over IP, checks passwords and so on.
• mailsserver --- The same over SMTP or MTA or whatever.

The work is about the same, but using a software stack instead of one gigantic program makes every much more flexible.

I definately see the "web based game server" thinking showing there. In many ways that duplicates requests Ive made. Seperating host from client, and especially the IPserver, would go far toward good management for hosts.

I did understand the response I got about them not wanting to update multiple programs. Just the game and demo have floated quite a ways apart from each other.

[Annette]

Boy, Arryn, you really know how to push my buttons How do you do that? Certainly, no apology necessary. I'm sorry if I've spoken out of context. Back to my cell before anyone notices I've escaped! (See why they don't let me post much??)