Missing french formations

[narwan]

The french obat misses many Foreign Legion formations. Besides the independent (mot) infantry cie's, the legion also is represented in the regular armed forces. The 2REI (Regiment etranger d'infantrie), 1REC (Regiment etranger de cavalerie), 2REP (Regiment etranger de parachutist) were all part of regular french divisions (and likewise equipped) slotted for use against the WP. (Taken from the army organisation after the reorganisations of the middle 80's).

So there should be formations of these types with the legions modifiers (+15/+15)(IMO at least). The parachutists especially were/are considered elite of the elite (warranting even higher modifiers).
Any chance of this making it into a next version/patch? If so, I'd be willing to spend some time on finding out which types of cie's should be 'legionised' for which periods.

Narwan

[DRG]

There are fourteen Legion formations in the game which pretty much covers everything except the paras which I may look into.

We include MOBHack with the game so people can make their own modifications if they aren't happy with what we have in the game. Legionaires are Legionaires and if you want a coy of Legionaires they are in the game for you to use with all their modifiers

Don

[Mobhack]

What Don said - there are bound to be the odd rare case that can be covered either by using an existing formation (but as something else) if close enough, or a simple copy of the requisite formation(s) to a new slot (so the AI will not pick them as regular line formations etc! ) and modify the stats and/or add or delete the requisite support sections etc.

Cheers
Andy

[narwan]

Thanks for the replies but I do have to disagree I'm afraid. Now off course my information could be wrong but according to those the available formations don't cover everything. And by everything I mean actual formations in the french army. And I assume the basic game tries to depict actual available formations as close as possible.

There are no 'mechanised' legion infantry cie's, only a cie on foot and a motorised with trucks. There should be as far as I know cie's with VAB's (and a spt cie with VAB's). That was the standard vehicle for Legion infantry formations, not trucks.

There is the REC + Legion cie but as the "+ legion" implies, it seems to ignore that the REC itself is Legion (E for Etranger), not just the two added on platoons. So the modifier here should be the same as for other legion formations and not 5 less, right?
The two added on plts are truck motorised infantry and again, not the expected VAB's. Why they are added on is also unclear since this doesn't reflect any TO&E of the REC I've come across.
The REC (the actual regiment and not the cie in the game)also fields HOT/VAB's which are missing from the games REC + legion cie and which are not available as a separate Legion SP-ATGM cie.

The Legion also fields it's own combat engineer companies. I haven't seen these in the game either.
The game depicts the Legion (from the late 70's onwards at least) simply as light, truck mounted infantry forces which is not correct. They had 'heavy' units which were similarly equipped as their counterparts in the regular army.


The following is a list of French army formations fielding Legion regiments in june '89:


d. 11th Division Parachutiste - Toulouse, France: 13500 personnel
1) 1st Regiment de Hussards Parachutists (RHP): 36 ERC 90, 12 Milan
2) 3rd Parachutiste d'Infanterie de Marine (RPIMa): 12 AML, 12 120 mm mortars, 8 81mm mortars, 8 Milan
3) 6th Parachutiste d'Infanterie de Marine (RPIMa): 12 AML, 12 120 mm mortars, 8 81mm mortars, 8 Milan
4) 8th Parachutiste d'Infanterie de Marine (RPIMa): 12 AML, 12 120 mm mortars, 8 81mm mortars, 8 Milan
5) 1st Regt de Chasseurs Parachutiste (RCP): 12 AML, 12 120 mm mortars, 8 81mm mortars, 8 Milan
6) 9th Regt de Chasseurs Parachutiste (RCP): 12 AML, 12 120 mm mortars, 8 81mm mortars, 8 Milan
7) 2nd Regiment Etrangere Parachutiste (REP): 12 AML, 12 120 mm mortars, 8 81mm mortars, 8 Milan
8) 35th Regiment d'Artillerie Parachutiste (RAP): 24 AU50 105mm towed
9) 17th Regiment du Genie Parachutiste (RGP)(Airborne Combat Engineers):
10) 7th Regiment Parachutiste de Commande-ment et de Soutien (RPCS):
11) 14th Regiment Parachutiste de Commande-ment et de Soutien (RPCS


b. 6th Division Legere Blindee (DLB)- Nimes, France: 7400 personnel - Light Armoured Division
1) 1st Regiment de Spahis (RS): 36 AMX10RC, 3 VAB, 12 VAB/HOT
2) 1st Regiment Etrangere de Cavalerie (REC): 36 AMX10RC, 3 VAB, 12 VAB/HOT
3) 2nd Regt Etrangere d'Infanterie (REI): 66 VAB, 8 81mm mortars, 8 Milan, 8 20mm AAA, 12 120mm mortars
4) 21st Regt d'Infanterie de Marine (RIMa): 66 VAB, 8 81mm mortars, 8 Milan, 8 20mm AAA, 12 120mm mortars
5) 68th Regiment d'Artillerie (RA): 24 BF50 155mm towed
6) 6th Regiment Etrangere du Genie (REG)(Foreign Legion Combat Engineers):
7) 6th Regiment de Commande-ment et de Soutien (RCS):


c. 12th Division Legere Blindee (DLB)- Saumur, France: Light Armored Division
1) 507th Regiment-Char de Combat (RCC): 70 AMX30B2, 11 AMX10P, 3 VAB, 2 81mm mortars, 2 Milan
2) 3rd Regiment de Chasseurs (RCh): 36 AMX10RC, 3 VAB, and 12 VAB/HOT
3) 4th Regt d'Infanterie Etrangere (REI): 66 VAB, 8 81mm mortars, 8 Milan, 8 20mm AAA, 12 120mm mortars
4) ? Regt d'Infanterie (RI): 66 VAB, 8 81mm mortars, 8 Milan, 8 20mm AAA, 12 120mm mortars
5) 33rd Regiment d'Artillerie (RA): 24 GCT 155mm SP


source:http://orbat.com/site/history/histor...o/oob1989.html

Narwan

[DRG]

There will be some additions to the OOB when the patch comes out

Don

[narwan]

Okay thanks.

Narwan

Btw, couldn't help but notice that the 6th Divsion legere blindee also has RIMa regiment mounted in VAB's... and the parachute division having several RIMa paratroop regiments. Sigh, trust the french to make things complicated!

[PlasmaKrab]

narwan said:
Btw, couldn't help but notice that the 6th Divsion legere blindee also has RIMa regiment mounted in VAB's... and the parachute division having several RIMa paratroop regiments. Sigh, trust the french to make things complicated!

Why, they just wanted to make one light division and one para division (make that a brigade each for normal people ) and lacked some regiments so they had to have their naval forces contributing...
No, frankly, I think there was also a will to have troops with amphibious capability and experience in each light division.

Anyway, what do you care about divisions and regiments in SPMBT? Just remember that French light forces will tend to get mixed up when the circumstances allow!

[narwan]

PlasmaKrab said:
[Anyway, what do you care about divisions and regiments in SPMBT? Just remember that French light forces will tend to get mixed up when the circumstances allow!

Just some 'proof' to show that the Legion (and apparantly the RIMa too) are more than just foot soldiers and that 'heavier' cie's with the appropriate modifiers are warranted in the french obat. I care about higher (than company) echelon formations because often I like to compose 'realistic' forces when buying troops.
Doesn't mean I don't mix, au contraire, but mixing will likely take place with other formations within the same higher echelon formation. German divisional recon battallions in the 80's for example had a 4 cie structure (2 armor, 1 mech+SP-ATGM, 1 A/C) that would mix into several combined arms cie's in wartime (probably 3 'regular' with 1 support). Have to know what's in the different formations before you can properly mix them though! Same with french formations.