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  #1  
Old December 14th, 2011, 04:37 PM
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Aeraaa Aeraaa is offline
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Default Fighting USA as the Red Army

First of all hello guys! First post here. I've been playing WinSPMBT for about 3 months and I must say I loved the game. Now for the question. I'm playing the scenario "Soviet tank division in attack" and I cant find a way to break US defences without sustaining heavy casualties. Using artillery against known enemy positions produces a lot of smoke hindering my vision, while causing no loss of vision to the thermal-imager Americans. Putting a tank company in overwatch just asks for the US artillery to drop anti tank cluster munitions on them. Helos are too damn fragile (and prone to retreating off map) and the only way to flank my opponentss is through towns that have enemy infantry hidden. Any ideas?
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Old December 14th, 2011, 05:39 PM

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Default Re: Fighting USA as the Red Army

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Originally Posted by Aeraaa View Post
First of all hello guys! First post here. I've been playing WinSPMBT for about 3 months and I must say I loved the game. Now for the question. I'm playing the scenario "Soviet tank division in attack" and I cant find a way to break US defences without sustaining heavy casualties. Using artillery against known enemy positions produces a lot of smoke hindering my vision, while causing no loss of vision to the thermal-imager Americans. Putting a tank company in overwatch just asks for the US artillery to drop anti tank cluster munitions on them. Helos are too damn fragile (and prone to retreating off map) and the only way to flank my opponentss is through towns that have enemy infantry hidden. Any ideas?
From what I read I'm guessing that you need lots and lots more of what you did not bring, namely, Infantry.

Infantry advancing first, Artillery smacking down anything that moves or even looks funny, Airstrike or two not cause they'll be effective but because it'll give you a better idea of where the enemy is located. Then IFVs. Then Tanks.

Seems that you are discovering what NATO military planners long suspected. Soviet armor playing the "Quantity has a Quality all its own" stunt is just so much fodder as long as you don't run out of ammo.
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Old December 14th, 2011, 05:59 PM
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Default Re: Fighting USA as the Red Army

What year?
And if you're Rissian, remember the BM-13 and it's friends are YOUR Friend.
Sacrificial BRDMs are great for getting the Americans to reveal their positions so you can nail them with ATGMs.

And infantry, the Soviet OOB tends to rely too much on tanks if you ask me.
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Old December 14th, 2011, 08:09 PM
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Default Re: Fighting USA as the Red Army

He's playing a scenario - so is stuck with what he has been given.

Therefore - if any of you know a way to play that scenario, that would be helpful to him.

As to Russia Vs USA - it really depends on the time frame. Especially if it is post the introduction of the M1 and Bradley and the all-seeing TI sights, or before then.

The US Army is a bit mediocre before the M1 and Bradley, really. The M60A3 is the first average quality tank, when they have 90mm armed armour then the USA is on the back foot (and may have to rely on the 106mm RCL Jeeps! ) . Introduction of TOW is useful to them, but mainly in the defence though can be useful to overwatch an advance of M60s.

In fact the USSR has a distinct window of advantage in about 1969-late 70s having ZSU23-4, Strela MANPADS, BMP-1, T-64, BTR60PB and the RPG-7 etc. M60A3 and TOW plus Dragon helps the USA in the late 70s, but are not magnificent.

General Approach (mechanised force)
Once the TI sights become available then the best way to play as USSR v NATO in the advance is:
- select a village or town, or a large woods to put your main effort through
- Blow that cover to bits with a massive arty barrage. That makes navigable rubble of the buildings, and puts the woods on fire (harms TI).
- All of that blocks LOS - you want to emerge at point blank range onto stunned survivors pinned by your barrage
- follow close behind the barrage with mech infantry and tanks
- Don't worry if your off-map batteries go offline due to counter battery, as you bought LOTS of them. And any US arty firing CB (or left sitting idle to do so) is not firing at your on map troops, and has cost points he has not spent on M1s.
- Once you have cleared the wood/village/large town, scout out ahead with some dismounts before proceeding to the next close cover.
- overwatch your assault with radar guided AAA. The ZSU23-4 is great for this. There is a 57mm radar guided piece that can be good as well, provide a few trucks to shift these. The radar sees through night and fog, so these pieces should annoy his air assets.

NB - a saddle in between peaks or similar, or a narrow valley is a good entry point into the USA position. His TI cannot see through hills. Paste the hilltops with mortar fire.

Above all - you are trying to utilise the blind areas where he does not have much long range LOS to. His advantage is in long-range weapons with Thermal sights. Hills, rubble, and woods physically block that. Smoke does not. Lots of fire can block thermal sights, so if you have access to thermobaric MRL (Buratinos say) - then you may be able to make a fire screen over several turns shooting.

IF you are stuck with a pancake flat desert or plain, then you are SOL. You really need to use terrain masking to hide your approach and to try to isolate small pockets of enemy at close quarters (and hopefully from the flank or rear). In that case, perhaps hide in your rear zone while sneaking some dismounted scouts up and stonking suspect areas with your massed batteries might do. Once you find a defended area - switch all fires onto it and really mallet that. That takes time though. Thermobarics may be useful here.
Otherwise - see the Chinese horde approach, below.

Company Type
As an aside, I prefer the Soviet Mech infantry organisation over the tank formations organisation. Namely, BTR-60 wheeled APC companies with attached 4-tank organisation platoons (3 if feeling cheap). BTR60 are cheap and fast and deal with the M113 perfectly fine. Marry them up with faster model tanks (T64, T72) and off you go into the barrage. The BMP series I really don't like much until the BMP-2 with its 30mm cannon. The BMP-1 sagger/73mm is not good except if you are defending on a wide open plain (e.g. Egypt v Israel in 73). BMP-1 is best defending, BMP-2 has a cannon and a better missile and can therefore get stuck in close. Still pricey compared to the BTR60 though. BMP-3 is way too expensive as any sort of infantry transport IMHO though. The Soviet tank organisation (a 10 tank coy with an attached BMP platoon) - has too much armour and few APC for the close quarters combat approach, and is rather expensive to boot.


Go Chinese?.
OR - post the TI revolution - use Chinese/N Korean tactics. Don't buy those tankie things!, they simply provide M1s some targets. (Though a relatively small force of mobile stuff held in deep reserve to sweep up the V-hexes in the end game may be useful). otherwise, buy masses of arty battalions and loads and loads of decent leg infantry companies (make sure to have lots of RPGs in the squads). Fire a creeping barrage, and advance the grunts WW1-style in waves behind that. Buy a few batteries of 130mm or similar LR arty (check the encyclopaedia for the date in question) , and hold fire - they may smack enemy batteries. If not, you will have some fresh batteries for use in the later game on e.g. on-map arty hotspots.
Any armoured force is a deep reserve - maybe to nip off a counter attack with, or to sweep up some deep V-hexes once you have routed his forces with arty and infantry close quarters attacks. Perhaps useful to attract any air strikes away from the important forces (the grunts and on-map MRL etc).

cheers
Andy
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  #5  
Old December 15th, 2011, 04:40 AM
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Default Re: Fighting USA as the Red Army

First of all thanks for your responses, some useful stuff mentioned. Now, to be a little more detailed to the situation, year is 1985, I have elements of a tank division namely 4 tank battalions, a motorised rifle battalion, an artillery regiment, some excellent SAMs (but no Shilkas damnit), company sized engineer elements and reconnaisanse company.Tanks range from T64As to T72Bs. Fortunately the Americans have only the 105mm version of M1, and as Mobhack said M60s are pushovers (but they have amazing spotting abilities). Only the T64A has any kind of trouble against the 105mm gun, the rest of the tanks can absorb lots of hits by that weapon. The real pain in the a** are the Bradleys with their TOWs and the M109s with their cluster munitions. My artillery on the other hand is just a lot of 152mmm off map howitzers and lots of on map self propelled Gvozdikas with no CM of my own. No Uragans, no burratinos, no MSTAs none of the Soviet artillery that can deal with armor. The Infantry approach has the problem that my infantry formation is relatively small (1 battalion compared to 4 tank battalions) and I want to use it on the town that has 80% of the flags and I know that the hills that have US armor have also MG positions (my surviving crew and some of my dismounted scouts have been shot by them), besides as former infantryman I dont want to waste hundreds of dirtleg lives.
After my first dissapointing assault, I've tried Mobhacks first suggestion and seems to work so far. I've entered the town's outskirts and proceding to bombard the heck out of the inner city to move further inside, most of the first line of armored defence is eliminated thanks to my T72s, and my better use of Mi24s (now I've used them further back as mobile ATGM platforms, though I've lost one of them from a lucky hit by an Abrams, plus I first sent my Mig-27s to soften up their AA defence) and casualties seem to have minimised. I know that if I take the majority of points in the city, the AI will try to counterattack, so if I make a good permeter defense around the besieged town it will be game over for the AI. Last, I want to thank the guy that made the scenario (and the previous which is a motorised rifle regiments river crossing), it's certainly a fascinating scenario.

edit: the scenario I'm talking about is #189 "Red Storm '85: the Tk DIvision in Assault"

Last edited by Aeraaa; December 15th, 2011 at 04:47 AM..
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  #6  
Old December 15th, 2011, 08:29 PM
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Default Re: Fighting USA as the Red Army

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Originally Posted by Aeraaa View Post
..besides as former infantryman I dont want to waste hundreds of dirtleg lives.
As a former infantryman myself, I've heard grunts called a lot of things, but never 'dirtleg.' Excuse the vulgarity, but I thought that was a reference to promiscuous women. Were you in the US Army? If so, what unit and what time frame?

Matt
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Old December 16th, 2011, 02:27 AM
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Default Re: Fighting USA as the Red Army

@mkr8683: No I was in the Greek Army, so the slang is a rough translation from our unofficial terms (infantrymen are being called either dirtlegs from the fact that they march more often than the rest of the soldiers, or cicadas...)

Maybe dirtfeet would be a better translation now that I think of it again...
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Old December 16th, 2011, 02:06 PM
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Default Re: Fighting USA as the Red Army

Haha! That's funny. I remember having to convoy to the field at Fort Hood when I was a private when I was in a combined arms mech battalion, I had to ride on one of the tanks in Delta company. After staying sick all day from all the bumping and jostling and breathing engine exhaust, we finally got to the bivouac site. They parked the tanks in a circle facing out, and I got my ruck from the bustle rack and jumped off to set up my sleeping bag. I looked around and the tankers were unloading their stuff on top of the tanks and stretching out. I hopped back up and asked the TC "Sergeant, you guys don't sleep on the ground?" He said "hell no, things live on the ground, like snakes and bugs and infantrymen."
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Old December 16th, 2011, 05:38 PM
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Default Re: Fighting USA as the Red Army

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Originally Posted by mkr8683 View Post
He said "hell no, things live on the ground, like snakes and bugs and infantrymen."


Made my day!
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  #10  
Old December 17th, 2011, 06:29 AM
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Default Re: Fighting USA as the Red Army

Haha yeah, the best way to change a tanker's attitude is to put them in front of any kind of obstacle (say a river) then they remember there are other guys around who are useful.
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