OT: Starcraft II and Elemental

[LDiCesare]

I'm not that confident about modding.
I'm used to modding games like Call to Power 2 and Civ IV, so I'm a bit spoiled, but the lack of a programming language (python was touted early on) will certainly hurt. Modding the user interface for instance doesn't seem possible, nor is modding a map script. It will be possible to mod new races, techs, and probably spells and effects, though, but I still think EWOM modding will fall short of my initial expectations.

I think there are 2 main issues in the beta which make the game unenjoyable/unplayable:
-Brain dead AI. I'm quite confident there, as Brad Wardell will take his time, but turn it into something challengin. Unfortunately, this may be at the cost of gameplay/variability/breadth of strategies available.
-Lack of army management UI. It's not possible to group 2 units outside cities and have them work as a single army. This has been the case from the first beta, and not fixed yet. I hope they change it, or make sure it can work seemlessly if it's supposed to work, but as it stands, this problem alone would make the game unplayable.

[Foodstamp]

Originally Posted by DonCorazon

I had a bad feeling about elemental when I saw the factions were like Kingdom of Galdor, Kingdom of Minos, Kingdom of [insert generic fantasy sounding name]. And I am making those up b/c I don’t feel like looking to see what the actual ones were but they were just as bland and indistinct. By way of contrast take a look of the old map of the World of Greyhawk for some inspiration – Hold of the Sea Princes, Caliphate of Ekbir, Bone March, Abbor Alz, etc.

And I am guessing in Elemental one will have some generic trade bonus, one will have a generic research bonus etc. Stardock is like a soulless robot. I like the flavor and eccentricity of games like AD&D (1st edition) or Dominions, with all the weird rules and exceptions that make it difficult to reduce everything to numbers. Stardock games feel like spreadsheets with shallow-cliched themes pasted on.

I pre-ordered elemental and cannot get it to run on my laptop so I am the first to admit I could be wrong. But hearing these reports seem to confirm my fears that it is going to have as much flavor as a rice puff.

This guy nailed it. I would only add that I think Elemental WILL be a good game a year or so from now. If they only give us XML for modding, I am going to be PISSED.

[das123]

First off, someone asked about Distant Worlds. Grab it!!! Best 4X space game ever made and getting better and better with each patch.

Regarding Elemental, I still hold high hopes for the game at release but I certainly empathise with the comments through this thread. Couple of things need to be said though:

1. Brad, the MD of Stardock, is basically on the forums every day as FrogBoy giving feedback and sharing the development of the game. I have never seen this level of openness from a developer. Bloody brave to face up day after day to defend what he is doing. He mustn't have a soul because I would imagine this to be a soul destroying exercise.

2. The screenshots of the final game do look much better than the Beta. So the world looks to be fairly immersive. Jury still out on racial diversity and tactical battles.

3. Like many here I think the game will end up being great after it has gone through a few versions and mods. But I also really believe it will be very good on release next week. A few lucky individuals managed to get their copies early through an error with the passwording and they are reporting that the game is fantastic.

4. Modding is based around XML but there will also eventually be Python as well.

[sector24]

Originally Posted by das123

3. Like many here I think the game will end up being great after it has gone through a few versions and mods. But I also really believe it will be very good on release next week. A few lucky individuals managed to get their copies early through an error with the passwording and they are reporting that the game is fantastic.

Can you provide some links? Good reviews would be very encouraging.

[das123]

Originally Posted by sector24

Can you provide some links? Good reviews would be very encouraging.

Here are some links to a couple of guys that downloaded it...

http://www.quartertothree.com/game-t...postcount=1920

http://www.quartertothree.com/game-t...postcount=1922

Not a lot of specifics but I'm heartened.

Also I felt very comfortable after reading the GameShark interview with the developer...
http://www.gameshark.com/features/74...ad-Wardell.htm

[LDiCesare]

Originally Posted by das123

2. The screenshots of the final game do look much better than the Beta. So the world looks to be fairly immersive. Jury still out on racial diversity and tactical battles.

But the spell learning interface seems to be mostly the same as in beta, and it realy sucks.
I found the game more interesting to play only with the cloth map to be honest. the graphics hinder play more than they help, managing to make it hard to distinguish fluff (worthless rocks or scrubs) from gameplay element (ores or forests).

[sector24]

Good find! Ironic that the guy got in trouble despite providing a pretty much glowing opinion of the game and the only data point which indicates that the game might not be a flop. You would think that they would want a counterpoint to all the negativity/disappointment going around.

[HoneyBadger]

I don't have a whole lot of faith in Stardock. GalCiv2 was (for me, anyway) unplayably buggy, even after fully patched (BSOD every single game, and very poor customer service/little help from the boards), and the bits I could play, were extremely and obviously (to the point of Stardock outright stating the fact) reminiscent in flavor to the Lord of the Rings.

Tolkien in space? Wha?

And trying to get the game to run on a brand new, cutting edge computer, was just more problem, since the vaunted "downloadable game" feature has been moved to an indecypherable/extremely difficult to use download site, with enough distracting advertizements on it to choke the Las Vegas strip.

Compounding that was the game's (entirely unwanted and, to me, rather distasteful) simplistic combat system (boiled down to, and again described as, paper-rock-scissors...in space!!!), and even more simplistic alignment system, ala early stoneage basic D&D. Frankly, both of those elements are the opposite of something I'd ever want in a science fiction game. I barely fathom the purpose of an alignment system in a fantasy game, as it is, and science fiction battles should be all about ever heightening levels of complexity.

Considering that they're basing Elemental on Master of Magic, another old as dirt game (although undeniably a beloved classic, and one of my favorite games), and looking back on their attempt at something comparable to Master of Orion, I'm extremely wary here. Nobody in their right mind should be trying to reinvent the so very worn fantasy wheel... Innovate or get out of the way. Coupled with the reports on their not easily accepting Beta feedback, it'll take a great deal of convincing before I shell out the cash for Elemental. I think I'd rather give the updated King's Bounty a try.

[WraithLord]

Save your money for IWs upcoming game. I do have faith in them since every single game they ever made was blessed with imagination and creativity and, most important, is fun to play.

Also, Disciples III is fun, as in aesthetically and musically pleasing while you cruise the campaign at 10% brain capacity during a hard day's evening.

[Torin]

I think that Gal Civ 2 its not an improvement over MOO2. In MOO2 you get complex battles and personal ship design that you actually witness and make some sense of.

In Gal Civ 2 you design your ship to get them in a "battle" wich is 2 battleships crashing against each other. One lives and one dies. Why would I care if it get laser beams or missile or a mix. You dont actually see the missiles and they dont make any difference.