Silly Noob Question regarding Lightless Lanterns

Hector, tamer of horses · #1 July 10th, 2009, 05:24 PM

Hi Guys

I have read many of the excellent strategy guides on this site. There are so many and they are so good, where do you guys find the time to write them?

Anyway, when boosting research capability, the use of "Lightless Lanterns" always comes up. Why, my noobishness asks, would you choose Lanterns over "Skull Mentor" (which provides 9 extra research in place of 6 for Lanterns). I have had no real difficulty collecting Death magic (admittedly I have only played T'ien Chen, Agartha, and Abysia) and these Mentors translate into a massive increase in research capability. Why would I take a %50 cut to have Lanterns?

Also, it appears that you cannot use two Mentors on the same guy (for an RP bump of 18). Why is that? Also, can you add a Lantern to a researcher that already has Mentor for a cumulative bump of 15? I guess as a side question, can you used two Lanterns on a researcher for 12 added RP?

And a last question, I have only played SP. I really enjoy T'ien Ch'i. So very flexible. But from what I have read, they get massacred in MP because the bless nations take them down fast before they can get rolling. Is this so? Is there a way around this or are they just dead out of the box? Don't really have the time for MP so I can't really find out for myself.

Thanks, in advance.

Calahan · #2 July 10th, 2009, 05:48 PM

Part of the attraction of Lanterns over Skull Mentors is that they are more cost efficient, since with a hammer you get 6rp for 3 gems with a Lantern, and 9rp for 7 gems with a skull mentor. But by far the main attraction of Lanterns over Skulls is that there are just so many good uses for Death gems at any stage of the game. Basically you have never have enough Death gems no matter which nation you play. But there are not many good uses for Fire gems, and many consider Fire gems to be by far the least useful type of gem, so forging Lanterns is considered one of the best uses for Fire gems. The other main ones being achemising them into Astral gems, or forging fire trinkets.

Fate · #3 July 10th, 2009, 06:10 PM

In answer to your other question, no two identical items can give the same buff from sitting in the first two miscellaneous slots of a unit.

That means 2 lightless lanterns = 6 RP, 2 burning Pearls = 5attack (I think?), 2 bracers of protection = +2 def and protection.

HOWEVER, if your unit has 3 slots (or more) and you put the same item in the first and third slots they will stack (I am not sure if this is considered a bug/exploit or is WAD).

Hector, tamer of horses · #4 July 10th, 2009, 06:52 PM

Thanks guys, especially for that three slot bit, very interesting.

I always find that I have lots of use for fire gems. Combat (flaming arrows etc.). I guess you can just do more with death.

What of the T'ien Ch'i question?

Trumanator · #5 July 10th, 2009, 06:53 PM

Does that include gem generators? So I can't give a scout 2 clams and expect it to work?

llamabeast · #6 July 10th, 2009, 07:27 PM

T'ien Ch'i aren't considered weak so far as I know.

Calahan · #7 July 10th, 2009, 07:34 PM

I think the doubling up on items for commanders with 3+ Misc/Hand slots got fixed at some point (if it ever existed)

Just ran a quick test with a Crone (4 Misc) and Deva (4 hands) and no combination of any of the two like items I tested had a stacking effect. I tested boosters, hammers, clams, and made sure the items had a slot between them. All only showed single effects from the pair of equipped items.

Illuminated One · #8 July 10th, 2009, 08:18 PM

LA Tien Chi is quite strong imo.
With an Earth-9 bless those ancestor vessels are very nice, 6 should take care of normal indies. Your magic is not as versatile as MA but it's still on the better side - as are your troops.

If you want a powerhouse nation similar to Tien Chi you should try Sauromatia.

ano · #9 July 10th, 2009, 08:58 PM

2 bottles of living water perfectly summon two elementals at start of battle. A bit strange because other identical items don't work together indeed.

Fate · #10 July 10th, 2009, 11:32 PM

I ran a quick test, and two gem generators do not stack.

Interesting that they fixed the three-slot bug.

For Tien'Chi:

You should check the sticky on strategy, there are a couple useful threads on MA Tien'chi (the wiki entry is very in depth). Baalz also wrote a guide to Tian'Chi Here.

Most (all) nations that aren't Bless nations are vulnerable to a bless rush, especially on smaller maps. Most nations can counteract this by taking advantage of some of the early spells (especially Evocation) or keeping an awake pretender. Tien'Chi has no need of an awake pretender except (possibly) for this purpose, so it is a bit of a waster. Also, Tien'Chi's best mages have very unpredictable paths and low health, making them sub-optimal combat mages.

Every nation can be viable with some good planning and enough luck (varies depending on the nation in question). Don't let balance stop you,