FREEDOM! (Turtledove's Alt WW2)

[MarkSheppard]

Alternate History.

Basically the Point of Departure is that Lee's orders aren't lost in a rolled up cigar wrapper and discovered by a Union Scout
before Antietam in 1862. Lee goes on to crushingly defeat McClellan, which causes England and France to recognize
the Confederacy, causing a draw to the Civil War.

1890s (The Second Mexican War aka 2nd War Between the States)

How Few Remain

WWI (aka the 3rd War Between the States)

In this one, the alliances are:

Germany
USA
Austria-Hungary

and

England
France
CSA

The Great War: American Front
The Great War: Walk in Hell
The Great War: Breakthroughs

1920s-1930s

Things start falling apart in the postwar years as a fascist party rises to power in the CSA, along with British Fascists and
French Royalists in France.

The American Empire: Blood and Iron
The American Empire: The Center Cannot Hold
The American Empire: The Victorious Opposition

WWII (aka the 4th War Between the States)

Settling Accounts: Return Engagement
Settling Accounts: Drive to the East
Settling Accounts: The Grapple
Settling Accounts: In the the Death (Coming in 2007)

To start things off I've attached a quick rendition of the CSA's "FREEDOM!" Flag for WWII.

[MarkSheppard]

Flag for the Empire of Mexico (Basically, they really don't appear much in turtledoves Alt-WW2, except as operating as allies of the CSA with very weak equipment in mostly anti-black guerilla roles.

[MarkSheppard]

Quick Run down of the Players:


France has had a royalist revolution; since there was no "official" flag for France before the Revolution, i used the naval jack as a stand-in.


Empire of Mexico. They're CSA allies ever since the CSA saved Maximiliano of Hapsburg from defeat by Republican Troops.


Republic of Quebec. Gained it's independence in WWI when the US invaded and Occupied Canada. Currently is neutral in WWII; but was heavily involved in WWI. It remains to be seen if they'll get into WWII (one more book to go)


Mormon Flag.

They're currently in a guerilla war/uprising/rebellion against the US.

[MarkSheppard]

This looks like a relatively straightforward total conversion, since Turtledove uses analogs of OTL military equipment wherever possible.

For example, the CSA uses dive bombers which strongly resemble the Stuka, the US uses Thompson SMGs, etc; the USA's Mark 3 Barrels resemble a panther, etc.

[Mobhack]

from my recollection - the Mk3 barrels had a "2 inch gun" - so probably more like the Pz3 (50mm) than panther?. The USA tanks seem to have been more like the M2/M3 mediums of OTL.

But you are right - he seems to use OTL kit, very thinly disguised, which probably saves him re-inventing the wheel.

Cheers
Andy

[MarkSheppard]

But you are right - he seems to use OTL kit, very thinly disguised, which probably saves him re-inventing the wheel.

Using OTL kit isn't that bad; because if you design an aircraft, weapon, or whatever to meet a specific set of requirements, you will end up with something very similar to OTL.

What I don't like is how he took the lazy route out and simply re-used the Stuka from OTL, right down to the fixed landing gear, and the cranked gull wings for the CSA "Asskicker".

The CSA wouldn't want such a short ranged aircraft for their dive bomber....this is North America, where range is far more important than in Europe...so it would look more like a SBD Dauntless Analogue, or a SB2C Helldiver analogue....since they'd need the extra range to drive deep into the USA, rather than just the border states....

[RecruitMonty]

"OTL"? Whats that?

[MarkSheppard]

OTL = Our TimeLine

[RecruitMonty]

Oh, thanks for the explanation

[Listy]

As I remember it the CSA infantry where all armed with SLR's or SMG's.

And the reason why he's nicking all the German stuff is because he's basicly lifted German history, between the wars fugged a few details then dropped into America.