SE5 - Strategies

[Malfador Machinations]

Hi All,

Thanks for all of the tremendous feedback in the SE5 subject. I saved the whole thing to go through at length.

Now for a more specific request: I'm interested in getting your feedback on the strategies in SE4. I'm reworking them for SE5, but I wanted to get the fans input on how well the strategies worked in SE4. Did you use them? What part was most useful? Which part did not work so well?

If you always used Tactical Combat, then strategies didn't come into play all that often. But for Simultaneous Turn games, strategies were essential in getting your ships to do what you wanted during combat. What options would you like to see to have the computer follow your wishes during combat?

Thanks!

Aaron

[rdouglass]

IMO, I'd like to see some sort of logic built into the Strategic Combat. Some sort of IF...THEN structure or some kind of Boolean logic with decision points to branch into other strats.

Probably been said before, but you asked...

[Puke]

i would liek the ability to better define which specific ships are allowed to break formation. i would like more granular control over which ships or ship types follow individual or fleet strategies for movement and fireing. maybe somethign with check-boxes.

I would also like a better ability to define where ships or at least where ship-types belong in the formation.

and possibly the ability to redefine formations in game, so stock (un-modded) games can take advantage of a more unlimited array of formations.

also, it might be neat to have sub-formations. imagine Groups of three ships that stay together, but each group moves about independantly. maybe each group consists of two attack ships with a defense ship in the middle, that kind of thing.

I can safely speak for all the PBW players when saying that we use the strategies ALOT, if not exclusively. our mode of thinking has had to adapt around the way the strategies work, rather than what exactly we want our ships to do. that said, i think its a great system that would be better with more flexability.

[tesco samoa]

I would like to see it set up as scripts. That you can save and post for other players to see.

Perhaps have them based on situations.

IE. Initial contact... Fleet moves to scan range.

If the enemy has missles then the pdc ships move up to protect.

If your ships figure out that they will be destroyed then they retreat.

Stuff like that. But I think the key would be a script based system that you can save the strategies for future games and trade them.

Perhaps also you could have a fleet have a primary stragety and then secondary ones if the primary one cannot work in the current siutation.

This would allow players to get as detailed as possible in a combat situation or as little as possible and use some default strategies.

I think that the basis of the stragety should be based on fleet engagements.

With the option of giving some individual ship strageties to use when they are alone or if the c&c losses control of the battle or when the command act independenty is given.

This would give it a better feel than under the current situation where everyone has fleets break formation upon contact. Which i feel is not to realistic for fleet combat.

What do you think of this system Aaron.

[Fyron]

Formations definitely need to be customizable in-game. This is a huge limitation in SE4. Formations.txt should be replaced by DefaultFormations.txt, which would function identically to the DefaultStrategyTypes.txt in SE4. It would be read form when you create your empire file, but never again. You can edit your formations in-game.

Additionally, if the script method Tesco discussed is not used, we need some way to export and import specified strategies or formations in a savegame. After a game is started, it is a pain to add a new strategy you learn of. If we could import from a list of strategies in DefaultStrategyTypes.txt, or even an arbitrary file (which is formatted correctly), so that everything in the file can just be added (or replaced/updated if a same-name strategy already exists), without having to reload _everything_ from the Default file. We should be able to export a specified set of strategies, or even all of them, to an arbitrarily defined file name. Formations should work in just the same way. Both of these functions would be useable during any turn of a game in progress, and imports would add the formations and strategies to those saved for your empire (which would naturally need to be exported with the empire file when you export that).

An additional benefit of the above method is that we would be able to edit formations and strategies to be saved for a mod or custom file to post in a graphical interface instead of a text editor. They should still be saved in text files so that those that want to use a text editor can do so, of course. But, editing and creating formations in a text editor is a huge PITA.

Speaking of empire files... when we edit a saved empire file before starting a game, we should have an option to either keep the strategies and formations saved in it, or to load them from the default files (a separate toggle for each). Default would be to keep what is saved in the empire file. Another toggle should be present to either keep all ship designs saved with the empire file, or to clear them. Many players like to save their empire file and use it in a new PBW game, maybe with a few tweaks here and there. The problem is that if the empire file is edited in any way, saved strategies and vehicle designs are lost.

Personally, I don't mind if empire files start ranging in the dozens (or even a few hundreds) of kilobytes instead of 10 or 20 if there is a lot of data saved in them (many user-defined strategies and formations to get to 100s of KBs), and I doubt many people would. It would IMO be an acceptable tradeoff for the added functionality.

[Suicide Junkie]

Scripts as a base would be nice, perhaps with a simple logic programming to form the strategy. The logic would determine what script is appropriate at the time.

Code:

---

if (numEnemies > 10*numAllies) then 

   SetFleetStrategy(panic01) 

else 

   SetCombatMessage(warcry06)

   SetFleetStrategy(berzerkercharge)

endif



if fleetstrategy = berzerkercharge and hasweapons(ThisShip) then

   RunScript (RushInAndFireWildlyAtRandomEnemy)

else

   RunScript (RunAndHide)

endif

---

[tesco samoa]

Now that does bring up an interesting question

Retreat... can it happen

[Iansidious]

I hope this is doable. I would like to see ship damage more detailed. Example, I tell my ship, 0001 too target only engine's on enemy ship 0003. Any fireable weapon will damage the engine's on enemy ship, 0003. Or, target weapon's, sensor's, cargo, shield generator's, etc. If any of you ever played "Star Trek Bridge Commander", you get my point. With this, game strategy becomes more unique and and more realistic. Not to mention awesome gameplay!

[FLX]

Strategies are quite complete in SE:IV, and customizing them as they were scripts could be dificult for some players (not me ). However, there would be nice if there were be a way to customize the strategies as scripts, and a user-friendly way to do that ingame, but in order to use them in a simultaneous game, there should be too many parameters to contemplate in the turn compilation, i mean, now, you choose between a few parameters, and the "choose array" is what you send. The point is: Increasing the "size" of this array to make strategies more configurables OR sending a compiled (or raw) script to describe deeply the strategy.

Strategies should include movement behavoirs like "protect the fleet leader" or "stay at %d sectors from enemy ships", but i like the idea of the scripting strategy, limiting it to a number of lines, and maybe compiling them before they can be used to ensure a small-sized savegame file.

[Thermodyne]

Well being as you asked…….Yes I do have a request/suggestion or two or four.


1) Instead of a whole fleet firing then the other fleet firing, I would like to see it alternate at the ship level. Fleet A would fire from ship 1 and then fleet B would fire from ship 1. Then Fleet A would fire from ship 2 and fleet B from ship 2. And so on until all ships have fired. This would increase the damage done to each fleet and create some balance and realism.
2) I would like to see a more detailed strategy engine. Perhaps allowing for sub units in a fleet that would have various orders. A fleet could be made up of several squadrons, and each squadron would have orders to act independently. Heavy hard ships might be used to hold the line and absorb damage while lighter faster Groups of ships would perhaps have orders to seek and destroy specific types of ships. Or to drive past blockading ships to attack targets beyond the point of battle.
3) I would like to see maneuver become part of the strategy. Perhaps have one that would allow for a fighting retreat or the ability to all but refuse combat. Another might allow for hit and run tactics. There is a need to add some value to tactics that does not exist at this time.
4) And while not pure combat strategy, but strategy none the less. I would like to see income from trade moved by ships. This would add some depth to the game by making the blockade a real part of the wars. And require each empire to build, maintain and protect a trade fleet. I think this would add realism and depth to the game. Of course there would need to be a minister for this too, it could be a lot of work with a large empire.