Point Defence and Maximum Weapons Range orders

[God Emperor]

Have been reviewing some AI combats (I usually play tactical) when I noticed that the AI moves ships towards missiles or fighters even though the ships have Maximum Weapons Range orders and their main weapons are currently reloading. Is there a way to stop this? (ie have the ships move only according to their main weapons state/withdraw while their main weapons are reloading).
This bug significantly degrades those races equipped with longer range weapons as they end up closing to Point Defence range instead.

Sounds like a worthy patch item.....

[PvK]

It's just that the "Target seekers targeted on..." toggle orders in ship strategies are often misunderstood. To get what you want, set these to NO. Doing this does NOT stop the ship from firing PD at seekers (regardless of whether they are targetted on the ship in question, or not).

If you set these to YES, then the ship will actually maneuver itself to hunt and destroy enemy seekers.

So, most often you want to set these to NO with strategies that are designed to avoid contact, or to stand off at long range.

PvK

[Rexxx]

My maximum weapons range strategy consists of maximum weapons range for the primary AND secondary movement strategy.
Using this strategy my missile ships never move close. It works fine for my missile ships.
One drawback is that the missiles are fired always at maximum range, so it becomes pretty hard to hit enemy ships with the Don't Get Hurt-strategy because they continously move out of range. Another one is the fact that enemy point defence becomes more powerful they get more shots. Anyway, since I use this this strategy my losses of attack ships has been decreased drastically.

[Rexxx]

Hi PvK

just read your answer. Never thought of that one. The strategy I described works despite of having set the toggle for targeting seekers to "YES" for all my ships. Seekers get a very high number in the priority list, though. That would explain why my ships don't go after them because there are always targets with higher priorities.
One more thing to be checked....

[ November 18, 2002, 17:48: Message edited by: Rexxx ]

[Gryphin]

The other option is to create PDC ships with one direct fire weapon of equal range as the PDC. You will need armor on this ship with as much ECM as you can. A light crusier with ECM III, 4 Statndard Armor and one each of Stealth and Scattering armor works well. The advantage of these ships is it frees up space on your larger ships so you can mount heavy weapons. I usualy build mine by Retrofitting LCs when i GET BCs.

[God Emperor]

@PvK
Which file has the toggle that you mentioned?

@Rexxx,
I have ships set with Maximum Weapons Range as primary and secondary movement orders but am still finding the ships to be seeker hunting anyway (Capital Ship Missiles were the only offensive weapon).
Check out the following extract from the Maximum Weapons Range strategy:

Name := Maximum Weapons Range
Primary Movement Strategy := Maximum Weapons Range
Secondary Movement Strategy := Maximum Weapons Range
Targeting Priority 1 := Has Weapons
Targeting Priority 2 := Nearest
Targeting Priority 3 := Most Damaged
Targeting Priority 4 := Weakest
Use Type Priority First := True
Type Priority Planets := 6
Type Priority Fighters := 3
Type Priority Seekers(On Us) := 0
Type Priority Seekers(On Others) := 0
Type Priority Mines := 12
Type Priority Carriers := 11
Type Priority Colony Ships := 10
Type Priority Transports := 9
Type Priority Bases(No Weapons) := 5
Type Priority Ships(No Weapons) := 8
Type Priority Bases := 4
Type Priority Ships := 1
Type Priority Satellites := 7
Type Priority Drones := 2
Dont Fire On Planets := False
Dont Fire On Fighters := False
Dont Fire On Seekers(On Us) := True
Dont Fire On Seekers(On Others) := True
Dont Fire On Mines := False
Dont Fire On Carriers := False
Dont Fire On Colony Ships := False
Dont Fire On Transports := False
Dont Fire On Bases(No Weapons) := False
Dont Fire On Ships(No Weapons) := False
Dont Fire On Bases := False
Dont Fire On Ships := False
Dont Fire On Satellites := False
Dont Fire On Drones := True
Fighters Launch Group Amount := 10
Break Formation Planets := True
Break Formation Fighters := True
Break Formation Mines := False
Break Formation Carriers := True
Break Formation Colony Ships := True
Break Formation Transports := True
Break Formation Bases(No Weapons) := False
Break Formation Ships(No Weapons) := False
Break Formation Bases := False
Break Formation Ships := False
Break Formation Satellites := True
Break Formation Drones := True

Note: the ships did actually target ships as the highest priority (the battle I ran included a planet, satellites, bases and a colony ship) but rapidly ended up chasing seekers as well.

[Phoenix-D]

"Dont Fire On Seekers(On Us) := True
Dont Fire On Seekers(On Others) := True"

That's the toggle PvK was refering to.

Phoenix-D

[God Emperor]

Hmmm,
I did try that without any real change in the AI's tactics (as evidenced by the extract).

GE

[God Emperor]

A possible thought I had an an interim fix to the problem was to redesign the point defence component with a much longer range but have the damage at long range as only 1pt.

eg:

Name := Point - Defense Cannons IV
Description := Small mobile cannons on turrets which are used to target and destroy incoming fighters and seekers.
Pic Num := 66
Tonnage Space Taken := 20
Tonnage Structure := 20
Cost Minerals := 200
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base\Sat\WeapPlat\Drone
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None
General Group := Weapons
Family := 2005
Roman Numeral := 4
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Point-Defense Weapons
Tech Level Req 1 := 4
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Point-Defense
Ability 1 Descr :=
Ability 1 Val 1 := 0
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := Point-Defense
Weapon Target := Ftr\Sat\Seekers\Drone
Weapon Damage At Rng := 55 55 55 55 55 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
Weapon Damage Type := Normal
Weapon Reload Rate := 1
Weapon Display Type := Torp
Weapon Display := 21
Weapon Modifier := 70
Weapon Sound := pointdef.wav
Weapon Family := 6

Will let you know how my play test goes....

[God Emperor]

The mod I suggested works guys (I just love the flexibility of this game!). Just finished running a couple of battles and the AI operated as I would have done!

The PD do not seem to harm seekers at long range and the ships maintain long range (and dance around a bit too).

Might have to see if Malfador can include this in the next patch.....

Will do a few more play tests but I'm already starting to think that I might be able to let the AI run my forces in Strategic battle rather than playing Tactical all the time.

[ November 18, 2002, 23:38: Message edited by: God Emperor ]