Ruinous Ruins in PBW

[Joachim]

I am only a newcomer to PBW but in two games it seems that ruins are having a particularly unbalancing effect. In one game I got Rock Col tech on turn 3 (I was Icy) giveing me a massive early boost in planets and hence research and production. In a second game I got two fighter tech levels, not neccessarily game breaking but I was Organic... Hence medium fighters with zappers (my term for electric discharge) in the 30thish turn! (I also got to the planet one move earlier than a rival empire!)
In future I think I will be looking closely at PBW game set ups and not playing if Ruins are enabled.
What do the more experienced PBW players think? Is it just luck of the draw?

J.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

it is very random. sometimes you get fairly useless stuff, like cargo, which you can research in your spare time or low levels of weapons your not researching, other times you get yep,colinization tech.

[ June 12, 2003, 07:27: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Slick]

Although that sounds to me like you sure would be tough to beat after getting those techs early, I would have to say that the scenario you describe seems rare to me in my experience. Ruin techs are chosen randomly at the time of map generation. I recommend playing several games with ruins before you write them off as unbalancing.

In my experience, ruins add flavor to the game and rarely lead to an overwhelming advantage like you experienced. Obviously it can happen, but SE4 never claims to have exactly equal starts for players.

Other factors can have a huge impact on giving a single race an advantage. You could have more large/huge breathable planets close to your start. You could have a particularly easy or very difficult defensive position from the start due to your placement and the number of warp points in your home system. Your opponent could be hampered by empty systems or, worse, black hole systems.

It is possible to make a custom map to create exactly equal starts, but this is not the general practice. I feel it is more fun to learn to exploit my advantages and cover my weaknesses in a long term plan to prevent the other players from doing the same thing. This pushes players to develop tactics, strategy, game plan... whatever you want to call it, most aspects of the game have effective counters and veteran players can win even in the face of an inferior start.

That game sure illustrates the importance of getting those ruins and/or preventing your opponents from getting them first!

Slick.

[Fyron]

Ruin techs are chosen randomly at the time of map generation.

No they aren't. The number of tech levels from non-unique ruins are determined then, as are unique ruins techs. But, the actual techs you get from non-unique ruins are determined when you colonize the planet, not when the map is generated.

[spoon]

Originally posted by Joachim:
I am only a newcomer to PBW but in two games it seems that ruins are having a particularly unbalancing effect.

For a more balanced PBW game, there are a few things you should probably do:

1) Disable ruins.
2) Disable Events.
3) Disable Surrender.

I also recommend:
4) Disallow the trading/gifting/etc of colony tech and breathers (though this requires an unenforcible House Rule, so its mileage varies with how much you can trust the other players)

5) Have someone make you a map to ensure even placement of starting positions

And if there are new players in the game, I would also:
6) Disable Intel.

[Fyron]

And if there are new players in the game, I would also:
6) Disable Intel.

I'd disable intel even with only veterans in the game, as the intel system is really bad.

[trooper]

Is Intel so hard to manage, that you prefer to make it available only to veterans ?

My opinion is that it's very hard to succeed an intel action against an empire as strong as you. (nether succeded one in PBW myself) So intel seems to be quite useless...

[spoon]

Originally posted by trooper:
Is Intel so hard to manage, that you prefer to make it available only to veterans ?

It's not hard to manage, just overpowered against people who don't realize how important it is. Newer players have enough to worry about, in my opinion...

[Fyron]

Intel is not hard to manage, just really poorly implemented. Way too all or nothing.