What are the odds of that??

Deathstalker · #1 April 19th, 2001, 05:39 PM

Ok, I've got this game installed on two machines, a p133 where everything works fine (but slow) and a 'new' machine where everything is screwy. But anyway, the map editor works fine on both. Now to the weird part. Generated a map on one machine and started playing after a few mods to it. Now between turns (slow on a 133

) I am messing around with the editor on the other machine. RANDOMLY generating a map for a few trys and suddenly a familiar map appears. THE GAME I AM CURRENTLY PLAYING???? The map was exact to the pre-modded one, down to planets and names, storm placements. How do two machines generate the SAME random map? Or is the editor not as random as it seems???
Ah well, just seemed weird to me, probally used up my 'luck' for the next ten years in this. Prob should have played a lottery instead

.

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"The Empress took your name away," said Chance.
Owen smiled coldly. "It wasn't hers to take. I'm a Deathstalker until I die. And we never forget a slight or an enemy." -Owen Deathstalker.

jimbob55 · #2 April 19th, 2001, 05:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Deathstalker:
How do two machines generate the SAME random map? Or is the editor not as random as it seems???

Chances are low, but if SE4 seeds it's random numbers on something like a lookup table, not that low. I think syndicate wars used pi to 500 or 1000 decimal places as a seed.

If you keep flipping a coin long enough, eventually it will land on its edge.

rdouglass · #3 April 19th, 2001, 06:07 PM

If its anything like my old Pascal dayz - it was never really random - just psudo-random from an aforementioned 'lookup table'...

Don't really know for sure, but I don't believe there is ever really a random number ever generated by a computer. They can make 'em kinda' random by adding in time-ticks or something, but never really random.

DirectorTsaarx · #4 April 19th, 2001, 10:26 PM

Most computerized random-number generators use a complex formula that takes a "seed" value and comes up with a "pseudo-random" number. This "pseudo-random" number is then used as the seed for the next number in the sequence, etc. So, really, a random-number generator merely creates a randomized sequence of numbers; not only is every number equally likely to occur, if you run through the whole sequence, you will get a perfect distribution of those numbers (i.e., actual occurrences will exactly match predicted occurrences). Obviously, for any set of runs less than the full sequence of numbers, the distribution is not necessarily perfect; in fact, as the set of runs approaches the full sequence, the distribution becomes more "perfect" and therefore less "random".

A pseudo-random sequence can be implemented in hardware using a shift register and some exclusive-OR gates connected as a feedback loop for the shift register.

DirectorTsaarx · #5 April 19th, 2001, 10:39 PM

Try this site for more information on random-number generators:
http://nhse.npac.syr.edu/random/index.html

jimbob55 · #6 April 20th, 2001, 03:17 PM

LOL. I knew lava lamps had to be useful for something

What we need is a sample of brownian motion like a good hot cup of tea......

DirectorTsaarx · #7 April 20th, 2001, 07:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by dogscoff:
I read somwhere that certain military systems have computers hooked up to cameras watching lava lamps, using the random movment of colours to gneratee random seeds for encryption purposes.

Or something. I might have dreamt it all=-)

I think that was a University somewhere in California (or maybe it WAS a government lab - some of those are run by university types anyway). I remember looking at it 5 years ago and thinking it was a pretty cool idea.

And jimbob - a cup of tea isn't bad, but I thought it was obsoleted by bistromathics

capnq · #8 April 20th, 2001, 10:23 PM

quote:
I think that was a University somewhere in California (or maybe it WAS a government lab - some of those are run by university types anyway).

http://lavarand.sgi.com/

"...harnessing the power of Lava Lite� lamps to generate truly random numbers since 1996.
"

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Cap'n Q

dogscoff · #9 April 21st, 2001, 01:06 AM

I read somwhere that certain military systems have computers hooked up to cameras watching lava lamps, using the random movment of colours to gneratee random seeds for encryption purposes.

Or something. I might have dreamt it all=-)

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There is an exception to every rule. Including this one.