Repairs

alien · #1 June 9th, 2001, 09:16 PM

Is there a material cost for repairs ?? (i.e. in minerals, organics, radioactives, depending on what components require repairing)
If not I think there ought to be. Sorry if this has already been suggested to MM

Droplede · #2 June 9th, 2001, 10:04 PM

Nope no cost -- other than the maintenance you normally pay for the on-ship repair component. You don't lose resources every time a ship is repaired.

Personally, I think that's just fine. The maintenance fee satisfactorily represents repair costs in an already abstract system, in my view. But I don't feel strongly about it, and I don't remember similar discussions in the past three months on this board. Might try doing a search to verify that.

alien · #3 June 9th, 2001, 10:26 PM

Yes, you do have a valid point.
However, I'm still not entirely convinced,
although I admit it is not a big issue.

Cheers

Beck · #4 June 10th, 2001, 12:42 AM

I think the current system is fine. It is after all an abstraction, and to what gain would requiring additional consumation of resources? One, as mentioned you are paying maintenance already and two, there is a limit to what can be repaired as the repair components can only work and repair a certain number of components depending on the level. The main reasons for requiring an outlay of additional resources is to provide a limit to how much can be repaired which is already in place and realism. But even damage is an abstraction. The component may not be in fact be totally destroyed, the marking it as such only means that is not functional and the game doesn't allow the use of its abilities. If you remove all the spark plugs from your car, in game terms the engine is destroyed as it will no longer function but the repair of it would hardly require much resources. In repairing, the biggest limiting factor is the presence or not of a ship having a repair component. If ships could simply repair at will or there was no limit to the number of components that could be repaired by a repair component, I could agree with your suggestion as then it would be needed to serve a function, limit repairs. As it is, it would be somewhat redundant. If you feel something needs to be done, then simply increase the cost of the repair component thereby increasing your maintenance costs and making repair ships rare. Due to its cost you wouldn't have one or more in every fleet.

raynor · #5 June 10th, 2001, 01:52 AM

You make a good point about the repair cost already being included in the maintenance cost. But I think a much more realistic repair model would incorporate the original cost of the component into the time required for repair. It just doesn't make sense to me that it takes the same amount of time to repair eight SM components as it does to repair eight pieces of Armor I.

I doubt this will be included in the game because of it complexity. But if it would be added easily, I would change the game so that a repair component can repair up to 'X' kilotons of component per turn. For example, let's say that even a Repair Component III can only repair 8 KiloTons per turn. By simply changing repair from number of components to total Kilotons, the game would be much, much more realistic, IMHO.

Beck · #6 June 10th, 2001, 04:51 AM

To a point I would agree. However since its fairly abstract, there would similiar lapses in realism regardless of the system applied. In your example, one could argue that 8 SM components could be more than equal to 8 armor as the armor may be totally replaced whereby the SM components may have a single item which must be repaired or simply replaced because it was all used up and the repair ability is mimicing having additional supplies of that item. For example single bulb flash cameras. Used once they can not take another flash picture until the bulb is replaced, a simple process. The same simple process could be taking place with the SM components. The only problem I have with going totally to KiloTons is the size of units is frequently not necessarily based on anything but play-balance issues in regard to how many one item should be in a same sized ship in comparsion to another. A better system would be if each component was rated as to the difficulty of the item to repair. This would dictate the length of time to make the repair and could allow for hierachies in which some types of repair would require a visit to a SY as a repair component would be insufficient or could only be completed to a certain level. Armor would be exceedingly difficult to repair while in space and in most cases would require a visit to a SY IMO. Utilizing the current system as to not make too much of a change, one could simply add a line to the components file; "Counts as X components for repair". Then one could modify and make the components repair at different rates.

Q · #7 June 10th, 2001, 08:12 AM

In a game like SE IV I am not concerned at all about realism. My only question is therefore what would it add to the game: It would make repair more difficult and that IMHO would not be good. Already now it's a good tactic not to destroy enemy ships but to cripple them. Or to gift/trade crippled ships. Your enemy will have to continue to pay maintenance for them and even for a human it's a pain to send a repair ship to the location of the damaged ship. The AI does not do it at all as far as I know. So again IMHO I would rather try to facilitate repair (see my Borg modification) than to make it more expensive.

alien · #8 June 10th, 2001, 09:53 PM

I think realism is absolutely essential and should be strived towards, otherwise you lose faith in the game as with many games on the market today. Alright, there is a maintenance cost, but you can simply argue that that represents the running costs of the repair facility itself. It is not realistic to imagine that the repair itself costs nothing in terms of materials and manpower.

This game has a lot going for it but I am frustrated by niggling aspects that don't make sense. Let's aim for perfection even if ultimately it's unacheivable.

Cheers

Suicide Junkie · #9 June 10th, 2001, 11:21 PM

You guys are all talking about the maintenance cost of the repair component, but the big expense is in maintaining your damaged ship.

If it takes only four turns to repair the ship, the cost to repair that ship is the same as the cost to build a whole NEW ship, and abandon the old one.

Every turn that you must spend on repairs costs you a lot of money in maintenance of the damaged ship, unless its mothballed at a planet.
Even then, it still costs you to unmothball the ship when repairs are finished.

Marty Ward · #10 June 11th, 2001, 12:00 AM

That maintenance fee is quite high, glad I don't have to spend 25% of the cost of my car each month to maintain it!
Maintenance should be adjusted. If it worked like population, ie 25% per year, that would make much more sense. Guess that isn't moddable though.
I've always thought repair should cost something but since this cost would be in addition to maintenance, and can't be added, it doesn't bother me as much.