OT: Western v. Eastern martial arts - Page 8

K · #71 January 30th, 2009, 11:23 PM

While all I have is my personal experience, I can tell you that after several years of Tai Chi that a lot of it is not practical. You honestly can learn all the "moves" of an entire martial art in about three months. The rest is just physical conditioning like speed and strength training and learning to react both instinctively and intelligently with the correct move.

I also studied Karate under a streetfighter ex-Marine and I can tell you that the stripped-down version looks nothing like the moves you see on TV. He basically said "I'll teach you to fight first, then I'll teach the impressive stuff if you still want to learn it." I watched the Capoiera club at my school for weeks before deciding that presenting my butt to an enemy is just not practical in any form. Saber fencing and Tai Chi saber fencing also can be mastered in any practical way in a few weeks (I fenced with an Olympic saber fencer and could beat him 1 out of 4 times and I was nowhere near the athlete and half-blind to boot).

There's a great mini-documentary on the Batman Begins DVD that shows the progression of a modern martial art called KC. It's a good example of showing how martial arts are designed toward a particular focus (in that case, fighting several enemies at once).

Mostly, I think martial arts get great marketing and religious stuff added to it so that teachers can get students. Learning to fight well is simply a matter of practice so that even the best trained warrior can be beaten by a street-fighter who has cobbled together a style from kung-fu movies and a little formal training (see Bruce Lee).

vfb · #72 January 31st, 2009, 12:54 AM

It sounds like you're basing your argument (regarding whether studying martial arts is practical) on Tai Chi and Fencing. That's pretty funny! I've yet to see anyone in MMA whose martial arts style is "Tai Chi". If there was anyone, probably he didn't make it very far.

My personal experience is with Aikido, which may also be impractical in a street fight (or MMA), but it's great for keeping the wife and kids in line (see my wife and kids).

Aikido does have some lame mystical elements, but horrible marketing, so they probably added a bunch of extra moves so it would take longer than three months to learn, thus retaining their core student base.

P.S. Batman Begins was horrible.

Omnirizon · #73 January 31st, 2009, 01:28 AM

isn't Tai Chi that _real slow_ martial art. the kind that old men do?

my friend practices that. he says it isn't a 'fighting' martial art but is purely a sort of mind-body-soul thing.

vfb · #74 January 31st, 2009, 02:00 AM

Yeah, that's the one. Old ladies too.

But there was some book or movie a while ago where the hero studied Tai Chi for years and years, or 3 months, or something, and he was such a Tai Chi god that he could rip out people's hearts through their eye sockets. I think it was sponsored by the American Federation of Tai Chi Clubs Financial Committee.

JimMorrison · #75 January 31st, 2009, 02:09 AM

The "mystical" elements are quite important, for true mastery of mind, body, and environment.

Understandably, they are easy to downplay, because developing oneself spiritually, conflicts with putting oneself on public display - thus the martial artists (or "fighters") that you see in movies and documentaries, tend towards the practical, rather than the intangible.

I won't claim any exclusivity for any particular methods, but I was under the impression that it was common knowledge that honing the mind and the spirit is rather important to self-perfection. You don't have to be a good person to be spiritual, and you don't have to be spiritual to be dangerous. In fact, the more dangerous "fighters" are those who have developed the weapon, without developing the warrior.

I'm sure this post is going to open a hell of a can of worms (judging by the few posts just before it!), so have fun.

Dedas · #76 January 31st, 2009, 03:04 AM

mmmmmm... worms.

I will follow this thread with interest (adding nothing besides this useless post of course).

vfb · #77 January 31st, 2009, 03:11 AM

Spiritualism doesn't conflict with public display in Japan. The top spiritualists get their own TV shows and rake in the big bucks. Here's one of the most successful guys at the moment:

Dedas · #78 January 31st, 2009, 03:30 AM

In Japan almost anything goes thanks to western culture.

JimMorrison · #79 January 31st, 2009, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vfb

Spiritualism doesn't conflict with public display in Japan. The top spiritualists get their own TV shows and rake in the big bucks. Here's one of the most successful guys at the moment:

Maybe I'm way off, but that picture just makes him look like a Japanese Jim Baker.

I wonder when Jim and Tammy Faye stopped being touted as "top spiritualists".

Granted, I've no idea what this man is all about, it's just a superficial observation.

lch · #80 January 31st, 2009, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vfb

My personal experience is with Aikido, which may also be impractical in a street fight (or MMA), but it's great for keeping the wife and kids in line (see my wife and kids).

I have no idea what Aikido looks like, but I have now the mental image of vfb throwing his family members around the house stuck in my brain.