counter intelligence

[Kimball]

How exactly does counter intelligence work?

I currently am in contact with two other races. I am generating almmost 200,000 intelligence, which is more than the other two empires combined, and I am still having successful intelligence operations against me.

I have tried counter intelligence I and II, and sometimes they work and sometimes they do not.

So, what are the differences between counter intelligence-I, II and III? Why am I unsuccessful against the other two empires operations when I have more points than the other two combined?

[Suicide Junkie]

Counter-Intel depends on having points STORED in a CI project.

If the CI project is completed, you lose all those defense points.

So, put your highest level CI project first for a turn or two, then move it to the back of the queue before it is finished. (Don't use "divide points evenly")

As the enemies attack, the stored points will decrease. When you are out of points in CI projects, then they will start to succeed in their attacks.

[Kimball]

So I don't necessarily want to complete a Counter Intelligence project? And time left to completion of .1 years is bad? So, if I understand correctly, as long as I have a CI up, but not with .1 years left, I can successfully defend against attacks?

So, what is the difference, other than cost, between CI levels I, II and III?

[ July 27, 2002, 20:23: Message edited by: Kimball ]

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Kimball:
So I don't necessarily want to complete a Counter Intelligence project? And time left to completion of .1 years is bad? So, if I understand correctly, as long as I have a CI up, but not with .1 years left, I can successfully defend against attacks?

So, what is the difference, other than cost, between CI levels I, II and III?

Only difference is cost, and how many Counter Intel points they hold. III is the best since it holds what 500,000 points, or something like that. Thus you can defend higher projects that are attacking you.

[ July 27, 2002, 20:40: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

[Pax]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
So, put your highest level CI project first for a turn or two, then move it to the back of the queue before it is finished. (Don't use "divide points evenly")

As the enemies attack, the stored points will decrease. When you are out of points in CI projects, then they will start to succeed in their attacks.

Or, put up one iteration fo your highest CI project. Next turn, add another. Next turn, another. And so on, until you have (if you're going pure defense) all 12 slots filled, with ever-changing %complete levels. Arrange for the higher-total projects to be "first" in line for depletion by enemy action. Set the queue to autoamtically repeat all completed projects (just in case).

And DO divide points evenly. 8)

[Kimball]

It all makes sense now. Thanks guys!

[rextorres]

Ahh the enigma of Intelligence - no explanations anywhere!?

This is based on tests I did about three months ago using 1.49. So hopefully someone will correct where my memory fails me.

On defense -

Level 1 gives 1x your defense points (the only reason someone would use this is if they don't have app. int. and they are getting intelligence points from trade once you get app. int. don't use this!)
Level 2 gives 2x your defense points
Level 3 gives 3x your defense points

ex - enemy attacks you with 90000 points
you would need to have saved 90000 in level 1 but only 30000 in level 3 to stop the attack.

Level 1 stops up to level 1 type attacks
Level 2 stops up to level 2 type attacks
Level 3 stops up to level 3 type attacks

So level 1 counter intel will stop fuel leaks, but not food shortage.

Puppet Political Parties rarely worked in my simulation - even when opponent had no intel saved - so don't bother.

Finally if I recall correctly (correct me if I'm wrong)
Even though you may have the points stored each instance of:
Counter intel 1 can only stop up to 1 attack
Counter intel 2 can only stop up to 2 level 2 attacks - AND ALL level 1 attacks REGARDLESS of points stored
Counter intel 3 can only stop up to 3 level 3 attacks - AND ALL level 1 and 2 attacks REGARDLESS of points stored

Ultimately if you have counter intel 3 and a good stock pile of intelligence you are pretty much immune.

[ July 27, 2002, 22:06: Message edited by: augustinetorres ]

[Q]

Originally posted by augustinetorres:
"Ahh the enigma of Intelligence - no explanations anywhere!?

This is based on tests I did about three months ago using 1.49. So hopefully someone will correct where my memory fails me.

On defense -

Level 1 gives 1x your defense points (the only reason someone would use this is if they don't have app. int. and they are getting intelligence points from trade once you get app. int. don't use this!)
Level 2 gives 2x your defense points
Level 3 gives 3x your defense points

ex - enemy attacks you with 90000 points
you would need to have saved 90000 in level 1 but only 30000 in level 3 to stop the attack."

This is basically correct. But you have another multiplyer of defense points in the settings text (unmodded it is 1.2). So in your example you need only 25000 points in a counter intel project 3 to stop an attack of 900000 points.

"Level 1 stops up to level 1 type attacks
Level 2 stops up to level 2 type attacks
Level 3 stops up to level 3 type attacks

So level 1 counter intel will stop fuel leaks, but not food shortage."

This is wrong. You can stop any attacking intel projects with counter intel level I provided you have multiple counter intel projects with enough point accumulated together.

"Finally if I recall correctly (correct me if I'm wrong)
Even though you may have the points stored each instance of:
Counter intel 1 can only stop up to 1 attack
Counter intel 2 can only stop up to 2 level 2 attacks - AND ALL level 1 attacks REGARDLESS of points stored
Counter intel 3 can only stop up to 3 level 3 attacks - AND ALL level 1 and 2 attacks REGARDLESS of points stored"

Again wrong. See above.
And don't forget that an empire that produces no intel points by itself can get them from a partnership treaty!

[ July 28, 2002, 06:36: Message edited by: Q ]

[Grandpa Kim]

Arrange for the higher-total projects to be "first" in line for
depletion by enemy action.

Small correction. Put your strongest counter intel. project LAST in line. This is the one that will receive the attack.

Kim

[rextorres]

Originally posted by Q:
"Level 1 stops up to level 1 type attacks
Level 2 stops up to level 2 type attacks
Level 3 stops up to level 3 type attacks

So level 1 counter intel will stop fuel leaks, but not food shortage."

This is wrong. You can stop any attacking intel projects with counter intel level I provided you have multiple counter intel projects with enough point accumulated together.!

I just redid the simulation and the defender had over 50,000 on defense in counter intel 1 and one food contamination at 15k got through, but then I tried over 50k in counter intel 2 and it stopped crew insurrection. I then tried fuel leak against 50k in counter intel 1 and fuel leak got through as well.

So my guess is that counter intel 1 doesn't seem to be working. Can someone else check this out.

You're right about the third part though.

[ July 28, 2002, 19:07: Message edited by: augustinetorres ]