MP: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Originally Posted by jimbojones1971

If it is not too late, its fairly simple to edit the map to designate the lakes as being out of bounds for starting locations.

Yes, I second that, please no lakes!

[Lung Drago]

Actually, I did some testing now and we apparently need to change the map anyway. Glory of the Gods is too small.
While number of provinces would be kinda fine, the real problem is that a good chunk of it is "unusable" - swamps and wastelands. I attempted to do a fixed start position version of the map for us, ran a web script I found on the net and got all provinces with <5 neighbours flagged nostart. Then I did some debugging and noticed some spawns are simply too close to each other. So, I sat down to it and went for it manually.

I tried my best, but the highest number of players you can cramp on this map is 15, with 2 being water. Adding any more would be too insane and balance would go instantly off the charts.(Even now some are somewhat too close, with mere 3 province space between them). It could go to 16 if we had another water nation, since the map actually looks useable by 3 sea nations. But some spawns still invoke a feeling of claustrophobia.

So, I highly suggest switching the map. Since choosing a useable map turned out to be a complex alchemy, and since I have nothing better to do today anyway, I will inspect several maps and attempt to come up with a new list. There is still an option of generating a map for us, aswell

[Vanguard X]

Originally Posted by Lung Drago

Actually, I did some testing now and we apparently need to change the map anyway. Glory of the Gods is too small.

Whew, thanks. I never played that map either but after looking at it I agree that it is way too small. Personally I like the idea of something that would average 20-25 lands per player.

[Blubbernaught]

I don't have any good MP map suggestions, but I'm game for whatever. Big is good, as far as that goes.

[megawidget]

Originally Posted by Vanguard X

Whew, thanks. I never played that map either but after looking at it I agree that it is way too small. Personally I like the idea of something that would average 20-25 lands per player.

Whoa... while this is my first multiplayer game, I did make sure to read a veteran's warning for newer players:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/sho...readid=3411351

Gameplay tips
- New players will often start on maps far too big. Play on a map with at most 15 provinces per nation. This is a normal size.

Technically, Glory of the Gods is already "too big", with ~16 provinces per land player. Also, how are wastes and swamps "useless"? They have the most sites! Going to a bigger map frankly makes me uncomfortable, as I'm already concerned about potential micromanagement hell that will occur once I inevitably dominate half the map.

[Lung Drago]

It turned out many of the maps with fixed starts have 3 province gap between capitols. So, it's propably just me thinking it's too close, lol. Well, absolutely no experience with dom3 map designs, really.

Originally Posted by megawidget

Also, how are wastes and swamps "useless"? They have the most sites!

That's true, but they still make very poor starting provinces. It simply isn't good when your capitol is on or neighbors many of these

http://i538.photobucket.com/albums/f...ultiplayer.jpg

Here is an example of a lineup. I tried to make it so there at least 2 land neighbors for each, one 3 provinces away and one 4 provinces away. Looks good for the most part, but since it is not a wraparound, some players are still somewhat lonely out there. Especially position number 11 and 2 alarm me. That frickin stupid island in the sea between them makes a logical another spawn point, but since it's an island, it's not an option as start. All spawns have 4 to 5 neighbors. No idea if this would actually work out.

An alternative could be "Alexandria" or "Asia Twist" maps. These have fixed starts already available, they are a little bit bigger though (made for 2 more land nations mostly). Orania ends up on ~17 provinces too.

[megawidget]

Originally Posted by Lung Drago

It turned out many of the maps with fixed starts have 3 province gap between capitols. So, it's propably just me thinking it's too close, lol. Well, absolutely no experience with dom3 map designs, really.

That's true, but they still make very poor starting provinces. It simply isn't good when your capitol is on or neighbors many of these

http://i538.photobucket.com/albums/f...ultiplayer.jpg

Here is an example of a lineup. I tried to make it so there at least 2 land neighbors for each, one 3 provinces away and one 4 provinces away. Looks good for the most part, but since it is not a wraparound, some players are still somewhat lonely out there. Especially position number 11 and 2 alarm me. That frickin stupid island in the sea between them makes a logical another spawn point, but since it's an island, it's not an option as start. All spawns have 4 to 5 neighbors. No idea if this would actually work out.

An alternative could be "Alexandria" or "Asia Twist" maps. These have fixed starts already available, they are a little bit bigger though (made for 2 more land nations mostly). Orania ends up on ~17 provinces too.

Wait, I thought that your home province always gets a certain population and income, regardless of which land you start out on?

Personally, I really don't like the idea of fixed starts, as it makes exploration to find your opponents' capitals insignificant, and is asking for remote spell spams from half across the world. In your changes to GotG, it looks like starts 2 and 6 get huge advantages, a) being in corners and b) having large uncontested swathes of land that are likely to have lots of gem-generating or even unique sites.
I'm fine with tighter spacings (even if I were a land nation) -- simply because it prompts head-butting faster, which is the point -- as long as people get their cap circles. I understand though if others want more playing room.

Orania I feel has too little water for both R'lyeh and I (esp. considering that water sites are meh, and so is their income -- a tradeoff for relative defensibility). Asia Twist looks really pretty on the other hand, so it gets my vote if you deem GotG unsuitable despite my arguments. Alexander (is that what you meant by 'Alexandria'?) also looks good, though it's up to you to decide if there's too much water for the squamous among us.

[krpeters]

I have a question and a thought on the map situation:

Question: since we're still deciding on a map, does that mean I should postpone sending in a Pretender?

Thought: On average, if you own every province within two provinces of your capital, you have about 20 provinces. That means on average there are only 4 provinces between your and your opponent's capital. A 3 province distance isn't bad in comparison. Having only 2 provinces between you and your opponent is when it gets ugly.

[jimbojones1971]

Twelve to fifteen provinces per player works out pretty well. Starting with only a few provinces between you and your neighbors is ugly, but this *is* a game about horribly murdering each other after all :-)

If we can't agree on a good "set" map, maybe we could consider picking one of the random maps from here:

http://www.dom3minions.com/RandomizedMaps.htm

Either way, I vote LD makes a call and we run with it :-)

[megawidget]

Originally Posted by jimbojones1971

If we can't agree on a good "set" map, maybe we could consider picking one of the random maps from here:

http://www.dom3minions.com/RandomizedMaps.htm

Hey, if I'm going to spend my time staring at ugly sprites, I at least want a pretty map to look at!

Also, out of curiosity, how will diplomacy be handled? IRC? Forum messaging? Something less awkward?