PBW ethics, opinions please.

[Fyron]

Well... the list is kinda out-dated, cause I haven't started any games with the 1.78 patch (upgraded, yeah). Everything in the list is fixed in 1.78 except Retroseries (which isn't a bug anyways ).

I add new ones when I learn of them. The list for Adamant 004 is like this:

No bug exploits allowed:

-exceeding the 100 units per sector limit (this includes satellites and mines). To account for a slight margin of error due to the fact that you cannot directly control the number of units allowed, 105 shall be the absolute limit.

-Using a colony ship as an early tech minesweeper (which will no longer be an issue after the next patch, btw).

-Using drones as early tech minesweepers (which will no longer be an issue after the next patch, btw).

-Retroseries building is not a bug, it is an intended game feature, and so is not prohibited by this rule (ie: it is allowed to be done).

[couslee]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
couslee, it's not a matter of keeping something secret so it can be used against newbies. Bugs are often not discussed openly in the forums until they are patched out to keep unethical people from becoming aware of them and exploiting them.

It's not to keep it secret from you, it's to keep it from being used against you.

Geoschmo

I was only teasing you guys. if i ever got around to becomming involved in a MP game, I am sure I could find out what that exploits are. If nothing else, I would ask the game host. After a number of 3yr SMAC PBEM games, I am still a little soured on the whole idea. Not opposed, and it's fun, yes. but I would have to make sure I like this game enough to make a long commitment. I have already read about the drop-out problems. Had that a lot in SMAC also. I think I know what the exploit is your talking about, and is I am correct, it was generally accepted in SMAC and not gamey at all. But as the original CMN and co-writer of the SMAC PBEM rules, I feel any dis-allowed or frowned-upon tactics should always be agreed upon by the host and all players before the first turn is sent.

[couslee]

Oops. After reading a little more, I know what the EB bug is. It was not what I was thinking of before.

In SMAC, one of the exploits that came under scrutiny was the tech accumulation carry over. Or, Leap-froging. It was put on the CMN options list of disallowed tactics. I think something like that would be called for here (I mean the list). Acessable to all, thread debateable prior to game starts.

The rules list was set up like a check list, that was completed by the person making the challange to other players (in this case, the host). that was posted in the thread offering slots. if someone didn't like the rules, then there was no need to request a position. This eliminated the problem that seems apparent here. Most people that view a certain tactic as gamey, is because either they would not use it (so what, personal choices are not gamey), or they did not know about it and other players in the game did. In smac, we found out most things viewed as gamey were of no consequence once everyone knew about it, and if disallowed was stated prior to game start. If a tactic is not disallowed, or specifically allowed, and a player by choice decides to not use it, then any other players that do are NOT cheating.

I will give it a shot.
GAMEY: cheezy, can't believe you did that, ur an arsehole for doing that, I am pissed cause I didn't know about/think of it first.
Example: Using captured "other breathers" to colonize/re-colonize red-dot planets. (some might view this as gamey, don't flame me)

Exploit/Cheat: Using a tactic that allows something in the game to work beyond how the game was designed.
Example: (not a true example) If you figured out a way to re-order the build queue without losing accumulated construction, that would be an exploit/bug. Currently, this is not allowed in-game.
(tho I think that should be allowed/fixed)

And one more quick comment..... WHO gives a flying hoot what people do in a single player game? in SP, there are not any gamey/exploits tactics. the only person you have to please is yourself. If I choose to re-load a game 15 times until I get a combat result in my favor, that is my choice. Provided of course I am not using final scores in a MP competition. After all, in that situation, your not really just in a SP game.

[DavidG]

Hmm I think I now know that Gamey = a bad thing. Wasn't sure before. It sounds like calling something 'gamey' is just what sore losers do when they are beaten by a tactic they did not know about. I used to play a guy were everytime I won I got accused of using a cheesy rule or tactic. The result was that every new game something else got Banned (ie Tech trade, surrender, red planets, Intel) untill finaly it was suggested that my using Ancient Race was cheating.

[couslee]

LOL @ ancient race being a cheat.

When life gives you lemmons, eat em. you could have recieved limes instead

[Arkcon]

Originally posted by Grandpa Kim:
Wow! I would really like to respond to each an every one of the Posts in this thread but even I don't have that kind of patience

Likewise.

Originally posted by Grandpa Kim:


Encyclopedia Malfadorica - PBW Ethics: IMHO there is not one thing in this article that has anything to do with ethics. It is merely a bunch of opinions on the "funnest" way to play the game. Excuse me, but I'll decide that on my own, and join the games that I find "funnest".

Got time to edit?

[Arkcon]

Originally posted by couslee:

GAMEY: cheezy, can't believe you did that, ur an arsehole for doing that, I am pissed cause I didn't know about/think of it first.
Example: Using captured "other breathers" to colonize/re-colonize red-dot planets. (some might view this as gamey, don't flame me)

Yeah see, I have a real problem with "gamey" -- it supposed to be a game. I suppose that means I'm not roleplaying my bloodthirsty Krill race properly by making a trade alliance. Maybe I dont feel like playing that way?