Treaties..... whats the point?

couslee · #1 January 15th, 2003, 08:22 PM

I appreciate the role-playing aspects, and do so to an extent. After reading about the MEE, I can appreciate that it is in the game. My main concern, was these two peacefull empires would use the benefits of my trade alliance to build a war machine to attack me. IRL, that is not going to happen. Using them as puppet attackers is a good idea, that way they can expand>>>>>> the other direction and irritate the other races. As I said before, in any of the other 4x games I have played, the AI views you as a MEE all the time, which is just silly. It would be like Togo (no offence to any Togoniese) saying they were going to take their one crop duster and attack the evil American empire..... and expect to have any other result than a good arse-wuppin. (just ask afganistan). The sad part, is the lack of coordination with the AIs. from what I read tho, ALL the AIs AT ONCE declare the war, which is fine. by the time I reach that point, the game will need something to make the mop-up more fun. The peck here, peck there is not a challange nor fun. There have been countless games of civ/smac that never got finished because of that, but if ALL the factions declared war at once, I might have been quite challanged.

I tried in other games to play the good guy super power, where I have even given fully developed cities/bases to help out the little guy, but they always turned out to be ingrates after a short period.

If you pass the MEE threshold, do "partnership" treaties also get canceled? I don't think they should, just as they should not be able to be canceled for any other reason. Deadlock2 was that way, a victory pact could not be canceled or brokien, and it had an impact on your final score. (shared points) If that is not the case here, I would like to see it in SEV or in the next upgrade/patch.

I hadn't thought of getting intel points from a treaty prior to being able to build the facilities. That certainly would explain why CI1 is there. kewl

Prophet-PBW · #2 January 16th, 2003, 02:53 AM

Say, has anyone been able to get an AI to accept Subjugation or Protectorate treaties?

I like to play GoodGuy-SuperPower, but always have those one or two neighbors that are hostile but weak. I'd prefer more of my wars to end with Subjugation, and less with their Surrender.

Prophet

couslee · #3 January 16th, 2003, 03:18 AM

In my game, I will give it a shot and see. i can always go back a turn. I decided to not bother with the one isolated race that would have to go through either myself, or the other little guy to get out of the corner. So I am just going to remove the distraction of them being there. I could try and get them to subjugate instead. will still probably re-load back, unless subjugates can't break that treaty even with MEE on. Might have to have a look at the Encl Malf again and see what it says about that treaty type.

Baron Munchausen · #4 January 16th, 2003, 03:39 AM

Acceptance of Protectorate and Subjugation are controlled just like Surrender. There is a specific setting in the ..._AI_Politics file. I forget what the default is, but you probably want to reduce it a bit for neutrals. I have used them successfully, but the AI seems to be much more prone to break these than other treaties.

As for intel, I have been toying with the idea of making some basic facility produce a few intel points. Space ports maybe? A space port would be a great place to post your intelligence officers so they could gather rumours and watch where people (err, beings?) and cargo were going. Or maybe the Urban Pacification Facility? If you take the Orwellian view of these as 'reprogramming' centers they could be auditing the personalities of your 'subjects' and reporting back on what they are finding. If one or the other of these produced 50 points or so you'd have a little bit to work with even before researching 'serious' intel techs. So as long as you only had counter-intel one and no other intel projects you'd only have intel defenses, supplied by these default sources.

[ January 16, 2003, 01:41: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

couslee · #5 January 16th, 2003, 04:33 AM

I like that idea of space ports producing some intel. Like Quark on DS9 always had some bit of info. Considering you only build one port per system, maybe 100 intel would be about right. 50 sounds low. would have to balance it and see.

edit:
the problem with UPCs, is they also are not available from the begining. I still havn't researched that tech tree. ports are a better idea imo

[ January 16, 2003, 02:36: Message edited by: couslee ]

couslee · #6 January 16th, 2003, 05:34 AM

Now, This is what I was talking about. I signed the trade alliance with the one race, their mood was "warm". A soon as I sign the trade they drop to moderate, and now the following turn they are dis-pleased. WTF!?? they should be leaping for frigging joy I signed the treaty and didn't crush them like a bug! Ingrate little mutha (explative)!

talk on the role-playing side of it, this is what irritates me about the game and treaties and whats the point. they get a warm mood, you sign a treaty with them and they get insulted I accepted their offer?

OK, so you wanna play rough? OK, say HELLO to my little friend.

Baron Munchausen · #7 January 16th, 2003, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by couslee:
Now, This is what I was talking about. I signed the trade alliance with the one race, their mood was "warm". A soon as I sign the trade they drop to moderate, and now the following turn they are dis-pleased. WTF!?? they should be leaping for frigging joy I signed the treaty and didn't crush them like a bug! Ingrate little mutha (explative)!

talk on the role-playing side of it, this is what irritates me about the game and treaties and whats the point. they get a warm mood, you sign a treaty with them and they get insulted I accepted their offer?

OK, so you wanna play rough? OK, say HELLO to my little friend.

This is caused by the way the AI decides on its attitude towards you. There are seperate calculations done according to how many planets you own that the AI could use. When you are not in any treaty, or in non-intercourse or non-aggression treaties, you are an 'enemy', but once you are in a treaty above 'non-aggression' you are a 'friend' and different numbers are used to calculate attitude. Look at Default_AI_Settings:

Get Angry Over Allied Colonizable Planets := True
Get Angry Over Enemy Colonizable Planets := True
Percentage of Allied Planets to consider as Attack Locations for Anger := 5
Percentage of Enemy Planets to consider as Attack Locations for Anger := 5

If the numbers are different the AI will have a usually major attitude shift towards anyone that changes treaty status.