KOTH: Attack of the Clones

Stone Mill · #1 January 30th, 2003, 06:12 PM

There have been many debates about whether there is an "Uber" race design or strat for SEIV (more specifically, KOTH).
I wish I could find that thread about offensive/defensive stacking... (can anyone help?)

Well, I'm observing that all winning KOTH players are doing the same thing. And if you fail to design your race the same way, you won't be able to compete against a player that does.

In my Last 2 matches, my ships suffered thoroughally abysmal performance, even with:
Attack: 114%
Defense: 113%

I also reasonably prioritize ECM and Sensor techs, armor, and fleet and ship training.

Why were ships shredded so easily? Because KOTH players have maxed their attack and defense racial traits (+20% each), took berserker (+10%).
They immediately research ECM and Sensor techs, armor, and fleet and ship training.

They most probably exploit the training facilities/moon strat to multiply training per round.

They attack first.

There are probably more things that enhance attack/defense which I failed to list, but that is the bulk. (Feel free to add anything I forgot).

So, I am warning (especially for anyone new) playing KOTH, that you will be quite a dead duck if you do not do the same. Opinions?

When I read the Posts about maximum offensive/defensive stacking, I really did not seem to realize how imporatant this was in one-on-one matches... but now I get it (oof!).
Essentially, this bores me, because racial design used to have a bit of variability and fun. Now everyone is forced to be a bunch of clones to even compete. I'm sure some players would debate this, but from my experience, I really don't see how...

DavidG · #2 January 30th, 2003, 08:10 PM

Sounds about right. I too have had numerically superior and I believe technically superior fleets completely slaughtered because my guys just couldn't hit the other guy due to his defensive bonus.

The other trait that I expect is important in the Maintenance value

Rollo · #3 January 30th, 2003, 08:13 PM

yes, you are pretty much correct. maximizing combat bonus is essential in one-on-one games.

geoschmo · #4 January 30th, 2003, 11:53 PM

In sports they call it fundamentals. If you want to win you have to be able to hit the cutoff man on a throw to home, or rebound, or tackle. It still leaves room for differences of strategy and what not. But the people who do the fundamentals will always beat those that don't. And those that do the fundamentals better will have the advantage over those that do them, but not as well.

Geoschmo

DavidG · #5 January 31st, 2003, 12:47 AM

Just for the record I won my first game with a negative in both attack and defense and my second now in turn 130 I have 100% in both and it has been a back and forth battle (although I suspect the writing is on the wall

)

So it is possible to win. It keeps you thinking knowing how crap your ships are though.

Thermodyne · #6 January 31st, 2003, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stone Mill:

They most probably exploit the training facilities/moon strat to multiply training per round.

..

Please splain this to me.

geoschmo · #7 January 31st, 2003, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stone Mill:
They most probably exploit the training facilities/moon strat to multiply training per round.

..

Quote:

Originally posted by Thermodyne:
Please splain this to me.

He's no doubt talking about placing the ship/fleet training facilities on a planet with moons to get ships trained faster.

Stone Mill · #8 January 31st, 2003, 02:22 AM

DavidG,

It is possible to win, I agree, but it would be a rare fluke against someone who maxes out the offensive/defensive bonus. If you played with no combat enhancements, you would never hit their ships. So you would need to catch them by mining them into a corner to limit their expansion, or surprise them with masses of seekers early in the game. But this is very unlikely. If it comes down to ship to ship combat, you'll be fried. No escaping the math.

Thermo- it's very nice to find a planet with a moon (2 is even better) and build ship or fleet training on each. You will get 3% training per facility (3 X 3 = 9% training per turn for a planet with 2 moons). Not bad, eh?

I just think we should be fair to the newbies who don't realize what is going on when they get slaugtered (and frustrated) because they don't realize what the fundamentals are:

For KOTH, ALWAYS create your race with Berserker trait and +20 attack and +20 defense.

ZeroAdunn · #9 January 31st, 2003, 02:56 AM

That is why I use the talisman.... my ships, always hit

Fyron · #10 January 31st, 2003, 03:36 AM

But that is likely to not help much in KOTH games ZA. They don't Last long enough for Talismans to come into play, unless you want to fall way behind in researching the fundamentals.