My problems with simultaneous

[PsychoTechFreak]

I am pretty sure I have used the correct order, I even have checked it in the view orders screen.

Is there a possible problem with quasi newtonian movement and the older proportions mod 2.4.x regarding EP's?

Tonight I will check it with this Version under turn based.

[PvK]

I just ran a test in 1.84 & Props 2.4.2 and didn't see a problem. I made a cruiser with efficient ion engines for usual speed 3, and strapped on Emergency Propulsion 5, gave orders to use the component and move, and it zoomed at speed 8, to 8 sectors away.

Hmm, I guess I should test with your colony ship example.

Ok, yep, I see the same thing. This would be a new bug discovery (congratulations...). Also, I don't understand what causes it. If I make a speed-3 colony ship with Emergency Propulsion II, and use it, it DOES go 5 sectors.

Let's try speed-1 and EmProp V... nope, same blown component and speed 1.

Ok, let's try a cruiser with speed 1 and EmProp V... nope, goes 1 and blows.

Seems like it is speed-1 ships. Let's try speed-2 ships with EmProp 5. ZOOoom... went 7 as hoped.

Testing with a speed-2 colony ship with EmProp 2 - goes 4 as expected.

Sooo... seems like there is a "feature/issue" wherein ships must have at least regular final speed 2 or more, or emergency propulsion won't work. I think the manual says somewhere that it has to have at least 1. So either it's a mistake, or I'm misremembering what the rules say.

PvK

[geoschmo]

This is just a guess on my part, but I wonder if the reason for this bug isn't that he programmed it so you can't use EP to accelerate a ship that is out of supply.

Geoschmo

[Ed Kolis]

You mean emergency propulsion *WORKS* in simultaneous games? Learn something new every day... weird that it would only work before the move orders, because then wouldn't the ship be at full movement and thus using the emergency propulsion wouldn't be able to give a ship more than its normal movement?

[geoschmo]

Yes, that's exactly how it works. It gets more than it's normal movement. On the other hand, if you wait and give a move order first you in effect "lock in" the maximum movement for the turn.

It is possible to set your orders up and not do the EP first. But it has to be done extremly carefully. You have to plot a course that will not use up all your movement before the EP is used, but will be far enough away that after the EP is used you haven't gone past your original maximum for the turn. Much easier to just give the EP order first, then you don't have to worry about it.

Geoschmo

[Slick]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
This is just a guess on my part, but I wonder if the reason for this bug isn't that he programmed it so you can't use EP to accelerate a ship that is out of supply.

Geoschmo

I know that the EP doesn't add supplies, but I don't think it should be designed that way. I would think that "Emergency Propulsion" should come with its own contained emergency supply of fuel. After all what good is an emergency engine with no gas?

Slick.

[PvK]

I think it makes reasonable sense that a ship should be able to move by itself before emergency propulsion will work. It depends on the mechanics involved, of course.

What's odd though is in practice the ship has to be able to move at speed TWO before EmProp will work. Again, I guess it's not unreasonable to imagine explanations for this ... ideally, the design screen would give a warning if a ship has EmProp but doesn't have enough speed to use it. By default, you can even put EmProp on bases.

As for simultaneous movement, you have to understand that it actually has time flow and speeds. That makes EmProp work differently.

In turn-based, there really is no time, just movement in sequence. So EmProp works by "replenishing expended movement points".

In simultaneous mode, there are no movement points, just speed. And there IS a limited amount of time. Orders are performed in sequence. If you give orders to move two sectors, then use emergency propulsion, then move five more sectors, the ship will move the first two sectors at its usual speed, then change speed to the new emergency speed, and move as far as it can at the higher speed. Some fancy maneouvers might actually use that, but generally, you get the most from EmProp in simultaneous mode, by using it first, before all other orders, so you move at emergency speed for the entire turn. Using it at the end of the turn would have no effect at all.

PvK