oooo aaron! - looks like moo3 is flopping... ;) do se5 faster?

[Fyron]

If you have direct access to the AI routines, then it becomes possible to mod good AIs. But since we don't in most games, the AIs remain poor. That would indeed be a great feature for SE5.

[ March 10, 2003, 04:54: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[MythicalMino]

Originally posted by raynor:

quote:

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Originally posted by klausD:
psycho freak.
every detail of your explanation is correct.

klaus

I'm not sure that is true. As a player you can add Manufacturing/Mining/Farming/Research/Govt/Recreation to a DEA. But you can *never* add facilities that enhance the facility or DEA. Examples include:
Hydroponic Farm
Soil Enrichment
Spaceport
Deep Core mining

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There is a mod out now, that lets you build those buildings....i know first hand, cause i use it....

[MythicalMino]

Originally posted by Unknown_Enemy:
My feeling is that most of SE4 fans will totally/fully/completely hate MOO3.

So geo, save your bucks !

I am a fan of SE4....and i also really, REALLY like MOO3....with the mods that ppl have released, it fixes pretty much all the ppl's complaints...now, i know that a game shouldn't be fixed by mods...but still, I find MOO3 VERY good...

[raynor]

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
I agree with the Fyron's argument too...
A challenging AI for a complex game is a lot more complex to create.

This is a given. But you have to admit that there are some folks who bought SEIV thinking it was playable as the single player game. But it just isn't. All those features are great in multiplayer. But, as a single player game, SEIV has no features because it has no AI.

[raynor]

Thanks for the info on the MOO3 mods.

[klausD]

This is a given. But you have to admit that there are some folks who bought SEIV thinking it was playable as the single player game. But it just isn't. All those features are great in multiplayer. But, as a single player game, SEIV has no features because it has no AI.

IMO SEIV AI is not so bad. I mean which AI of a 4X game is really that good? Eg I hate all those AI cheats from MOO (triple amount of fleet points and money without even mentioning it in the manual) and CIV. (the same problem with all 3 Versions)

A problem of the AI of SEIV is the immense complexity of the game. The AI has not only to handle the myriard standard game options. It has also to handle all those additional mods. And for this it is quite good I think.
For SEV I would wish a more simple but more effective diplomacy model. This could help to make the AI even better.

tschüss
KlausD

[Master Belisarius]

Originally posted by raynor:
But you have to admit that there are some folks who bought SEIV thinking it was playable as the single player game. But it just isn't. All those features are great in multiplayer. But, as a single player game, SEIV has no features because it has no AI.

I dissagree 100% with your view that SE4 has no AI.

As I wrote many times here, I'm sure the AI still can be improved, right?

Also, I'm sure that the AI has problems playing in big galaxies, when have many potential places to attack/defend at the same time.
For example, is usual that the AI doesn't know what to do with a big fleet when need to defend 2 systems at the same time.
Usually the AI move the fleets in one direction, and at the next turn to the other direction... then in fact the fleet doesn't do anything!
And finally, I know that the AI doesn't care about many of the Diplomatic options, then, think that playing against the AI, SE4 is mostly a wargame, in the sense that the diplomatic options are less important (in MP is very different of course).

But, to say that SE4 has no AI... well, I'm 100% sure that you're wrong about it.

More than once, I wrote that playing in small galaxies against 3 or 4 TDM AIs (some of the good ones... and these races are mostly warlike) and high bonus (and with AI vs humans if I want more challenge), usually I LOST my games (even toda!).
Trying to be fair with myself, know that I'm not a bad SE4 player and I was playing the game from a long time... then, if still I can lose a game against the AI, think I have good reasons to say the AI is not so bad.

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I think that the people who believe that SE4 has no AI, is the people that like to play epic games with BIG galaxies (sometimes with 255 systems, and most the time not playing AI vs humans).
================================================== ====================

Honestly would prefer that the SE4 AI could be more strong, or at least could cheat in the high levels like every 4x game (for example, in Moo and Moo2 was pretty obvious that the AI knew my unprotected planets to attack them). But can't to avoid recognize that SE4 has a very decent AI.

IMHO, a more than average AI if I compare this game with other 4x games