Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS

[JLS]

PsychoTechFreak,

I have not received save file yet?
Were you able to send it.
No hurry, just FYI...



[ March 10, 2003, 18:37: Message edited by: JLS ]

[PsychoTechFreak]

I have sent it to the mail address of your HP about 20 hours ago. Watch out for Thomas_... with a 3MByte attachment. Maybe it takes some time, FBI and CIA are busily observing a lot of combat.trn files nowadays.

EDIT: After about 30 hours I have received the delivery failure report because : Remote system no longer responding. Is your e-mail address at the bottom of your homepage up to date? I try again.

[ March 11, 2003, 13:18: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

[PsychoTechFreak]

" Based on 255 "?
You have made other changes in the setting files?
Did you set up the tests with the defaults that we mentioned for the AIC test. One planet, no warp and finite correct, I feel it is possible you strayed from the test parameters that we discussed; from in the startup or other pre file data changes. Is it possible that you added another mod to AIC inadvertently, there by overwriting AICs data files because, Default should have not been Mid Life, it should have been the top map in quad startup menu at setup, and there is no way in AIC; you could get 255 systems, this would break the SE4 map editor. So I have it set at the Optimal setting of about 114 systems, so others may use se4 Map editor in conjunction with AIC!

No, not more than this. I like to play maps at max. size, but I will change it back for the discussed simulation. I have not yet found the time to get back to it. The simulation files, that I have sent, have been taken from before our discussion.

Always click finite on before RE-generating a map! Otherwise ALL planets may have 1k of resorces!
There by possibly corrupting game planet values at start!

I am familiar with the issue. I have observed the planets of the first backups also, the homeplanets have been setup correctly (2M/2M/2M or 1M?)

Regarding the planned 12-galaxies simulation or any tests; maybe should wait to be sure the DOS Batch program is compatible with Non SE 4 Based Data files.
In regards to the AI, I don’t believe the AI scraps any facilities in se4 or AI Campaign after the game starts. Have you tested your DOS batch program before you advanced any turns to be positve that the Facilities are in good order from the start?

With this being true, and the AI does not Scrap facilities, then there may be a flaws in your test or a bug with the DOS program or it only works with BASE se4 Mods. Meaning no disrespect what I am about to say: Your test may not be valid with the tests you have been running for this AIC and Oleg’s AI in his mod.?!?
This flaw can be proven to exist in seconds; by just starting a new game (with out the DOS batch program) with the parameters we discussed. Then checking all facilities and you will notice the Planet and the the CCs on the HomeWorlds are as they should be; as I just did!!!

Poor Oleg, you may have him so concerned, that his AI empire is making weird facilities.

The DOS batch program works on basis of the same procedure as the turns are processed in PBW. It takes SE4.exe to compute the turns and it uses the mod paths that you setup the simulation with, similar to the modpicker program. It is necessary to kickstart a simulation: setup a simultaneous game, perform the first turn as human player with complete AI turned on; the initial setup of the homeplanet looks all right. After the first turn has been saved, you start the batch prg to compute the following turns. Your statement would imply that every PBW game with mods would get into trouble ! I have checked after 15 years, the CCs are on the homeplanets, 20 years: I have got a message like: "the minerals on planet x (homeplanet) have been depleted sire", and the CCs have been scrapped without any other facility projects within the next years. But I will repeat some tests about it. What happens in your tests after the minerals have been depleted ? Do you process under simultaneous and without watching the AI?

[ March 11, 2003, 10:43: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

[JLS]

[quote]Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:

The DOS batch program works on basis

If I offended you, in any way; I apologize. I thank you for our discussion, with your help I will be able to tweak the AI as not to be overbearing in a warp race!
And tone there research etc, so the human will have more of a chance:

“with [one planet] default set up ; and this AI will do fine in No warp, Finite !!!! no need for extra starting planets.”
~~~~~

In regards to my statement:

“maybe should wait to be sure the DOS Batch program is compatible with Non SE 4 Based Data files.
In regards to the AI, I don’t believe the AI scraps any facilities in se4 or AI Campaign after the game starts. Have you tested your DOS batch program before you advanced any turns to be positve that the Facilities are in good order from the start?
With this being true, and the AI does not Scrap facilities, then there may be a flaws in your test or a bug with the DOS program or it only works with BASE se4 Mods. Meaning no disrespect what I am about to say: Your test may not be valid with the tests you have been running for this AIC and Olegs AI in his mod.?!?
This flaw can be proven to exist in seconds; by just starting a new game (with out the DOS batch program) with the parameters we discussed. Then checking all facilities and you will notice the Planet and the the CCs on the HomeWorlds are as they should be"

I felt your statements warranted this reply, here are your Posts:

I have seen the AI scrapping their homeworlds when the unavoidable 0 of minerals has been reached after about 20 years

All cultural centers have been scrapped, only three facilities remain: SY, and the other 2 I might be wrong: resupply depot and a port or similar. You will see it from the files.

I mean, just to circumvent the problem with AI scrapping cultural centers when HP is depleted

~~~
Actually, I assumed you have had a lot of experience in space empires IV, and would know that a cultural center was a Facility, and that the AI in se4 never scraps Facilities.
I guess I was surprised you would post statements as above in your (Quotes), if, knowing the AI does not scrap facilities.

Unless I am misunderstanding you; and there is another issue?

No matter, it is difficult to express ones self with the written word, and I am no writer, but there is one thing I want you to know:
I appreciate the effort and time you put into this and that a lot of our discussion has helped with AIC.
In regards to scraping Facilities, I mean...well you know what I mean.

Thank you very much for your assistance PsychoTechFreak

John

[ March 11, 2003, 18:06: Message edited by: JLS ]

[PsychoTechFreak]

I don't feel offended, I am just annoyed a bit about my lacking time at the moment. I would like to help a lot more, but I can't. Again, I have not yet read all of your post, but I will answer later.

This is what I have digged up now:

Version 1.24:

7. Fixed - AI should scrap any atmospheric converters if the desired
atmosphere has been attained on the planet.

Version 1.20:

18. Fixed - Improved the AI's scrapping of uneeded facilities in a finite
resource game.

The bottom fix now makes some sense to me: It looks like the AI feels the cultural centers become worthless when minerals are depleted, because the CC does not produce any minerals at that time. But I will test it again (without batch program, but I guess it will be the same, at least with our finite setup).

[PsychoTechFreak]

All right, I have seen the scrapping of CC facilities now also without batch program.

It looks a bit like a not intended feature, but I need to investigate more about it:

This is what I have done:
-Changed settings.txt to 255 systems max.
-changed plr starting resources high to 2000, so the homeplanet would be depleted after the first turn
-game setup was AIC, large midlife quadrant, 1 good planet start (but with the modded 2000 min start)
-high research, everything researched from the beginning, cos I thought it could be that the AI wants to build something else than a CC

Turn 1: homeplanet depleted, but nothing else within the next turns, CC facilities ok

About one year later (2401.1), I just see the message: scrapped ship xxx, but no message about scrapping facilities, I investigate the homeplanet facilities window and what has happened? Only a spaceyard and a spacedock 2/20 facilities at the homeplanet.

Mmmh, looks a bit weird and could be either intended or a bug, but it obviously has nothing to do with SE4batch.

Anyway, I am going to do some more tests about it before the next simulation.

JLS, I have found another mail address in the mod picker window, when your mod is picked (...@msn.com), should I take this one next time? Or did you receive my files in the meantime?

EDIT:
It is the same with turn based, WPs connected, finite resources, proportions, medium quadrant strands:
Approximately one year after the homeplanet has been depleted, the CC facilities are gone. No message about it also (same as in AICampaign).

JLS, I think we need a workaround for AIC/proportions games with finite resources. I am going to continue some simulations with infinite resources now, because I think it does not make much sense to continue finite resources with these conditions. SE4batch and AI deathmatch#2 computing can be trusted again !

PS: To make it clear, all of the tests above have been done without SE4batch !

[ March 11, 2003, 20:51: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

[JLS]

Ahh, I see what you mean regards to scraping facilities, now!
Thanks

But that was fixed so long ago.

The solo AIC game I am playing now, is in turn 688; I am in 9th , out of 12 AI Players and 6 Neutrals and 1 independent. (with View all players scores)
I check on a differant AI, about 10 turns, on average, thru out this game, with the AI having constant up and down resource deficits. ALL AI Home Worlds Culture Centers are fine.

I have Grand Lord Vito AIC save game, GVL is in 2nd of his 732 Turn game and all AI Cultural Centers are Fine, in that game as well….
There is one Organic race that went from 2nd to 3rd Place with losses to ships and Planets and ran a {Currant total} resource deficit now for over (allot) of turns; All Cultural Centers are fine for that race.
1rst Place is held by AI Player with 281 Ships and 13 bases has a net per turn of in lowest of +7332 per turn.

Sorry, I don’t know what to say, about your DOS test. Every thing plays fine in regular game play, with ALL types of Culture Centers.

I can send you the Save Game files if, you like?

I guess the Space Empire Patch’s in v1.20 and v1.24 has worked. Is it possible that the DOS Program you are using has data in it that predates the above Patchs? I don’t know, I have not received your Email yet from your test.

~~~~~

How does other MODs stack up to your test, that have similar Urban Centers facilities?

My teen age son and I are currently playing Adamant Mod they have facilities Similar.

Proportions MOD also uses Cultural Facilities that are Similar.

With the same Parameter test, will there Urban Center End up missing?

[ March 11, 2003, 20:55: Message edited by: JLS ]