OT : Australian intervention in Solomon Islands

[Loser]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
i put the commoness of sex as one of the major causes of relationship breakups, divorces and general unsatisfication with marraige. as well as unwanted pregnancies, sexually transmitted deseases and people who will do anything to get into someone's pants. all of which is reduced or eliminated if there's no sex outside marriage. oh, yeah, there's no good reason not to get marriad relitivily young. but statistics say aviod the spring, get married in the fall. people are more sensible then.

it's a simple principle. if you take something special and make it common, then it's no longer special.

It's a simple principle that may or may not apply to sex.

The fact is that there were plenty of divorces, unwanted pregnancies, STDs, and unscrupulous rakes back in more austere periods of history. It simply wasn't talked about back then. I know this for a fact because it happened quite a bit in my families history and, thinking this must be some terribly uncommon trend, I eventually looked deeper into the issue.

The problems were just covered up better back then. A good percentage of Charm Schools and Boarding Schools were actually Schools for Wayward Girls (institutions for hiding pregnancy). Lack of birth control just meant that most 'loose women' were professionals, and the natural increase in prostitution adds to organized crime, it does not add to general virtue.

There will be sex, always. If you make marriage such a binding thing you will only make sex out of marriage more common, as a couple will get married to have sex ("because they love each other") then look elsewhere for satisfaction when their juvenile relationship skills make them miserable in each other's company.

You cannot eliminate sex outside of marriage. It has never been done (though I have heard the native people of Tasmania were free of adultery, I do not know this to be a fact, and look what happened to them).

Before we talk this particular discussion any further (in a separate thread) I'd have to do the ageist thing and ask both how old you are and how many years you spent as a parent-freed adult before you got in a cohabitated relationship.

[oleg]

Yes, I was a bit sarcastic. I did cry watching the horror of sept.11. I will give anything to bring the responsible to justice. But I'm petrified by actions of US goverment. Saddam was a brutal and despicable dictater. BUT he had nothing to do with Al-Queda. Nor were the misguided British muslims who came to Afganistan to defend their religion. Now they face the court-martial without any hope of fair trail.
You want justice ? Bring up Osama before the court. Where is he ? Why did we invade Irag instead ??

[Baron Grazic]

Originally posted by loser:
It has never been done (though I have heard the native people of Tasmania were free of adultery, I do not know this to be a fact, and look what happened to them)

What happened in Tasmania? And I assume you don't mean Tasmania, Australia?

I am afraid to say, but I think the bombings in Bali effected the Australian people more than the 9/11 event. The reason being, the 9/11 event was reported via TV and seemed remote, while the Bali bombings happened at a time when many Australian's where there, including many of our Star Footballers (Australian Rules Football).
I think this was a reason for our solid support of the US in Iraq. both terrorist events forming a bonding between our 2 nations.
It could also explain why the Australian Government wants to send troops to the Solomons, to ensure peace in our reason.

Australia doesn't have an official short name, other than AUST, so we just say OZ.
Tbontob was completely correct - OZ = Aus
I'm sure that their is a reference to the Wizard of OZ too?

I was watching a UK quiz show Last night and 8 out of 10 people, didn't know who the Priminister of Australia was... I'm interested, in how many of you guys (and the few ladies) know???

Deccan might have to answer about the situations in the Solomon Islands.
What I have 'heard' is Harold Keke, a local 'Warlord' and his supports have reportedly killed 50-200 people, destroyed villages, kidnapped people, and made between 1000-2000 people homeless. The remoteness of where is seems to be operating from leaves a lot of room for mis-information and/or exaggeration, and makes it hard to confirm details.

Perhaps Deccan can say what the local information is on the topic...

[Thermodyne]

When a Nation, any nation, is unable to control the actions of the people that live there to the
point that it adversely affects their neighbors, then they should expect said neighbors to
intervene.

From the research that I have done, it would appear that the situation in the Solomon’s is such
that the government can not regain control with out the help of outsiders. The government is
also over the Last decade, been unwilling to make needed reforms. When a government looses
both the support of the majority of the people and the ability to control them, then the
government has lost its mandate to rule. This is a prime example of why foreign intervention
happens.

If the people support Keke, then they should rise up and seize their birthright and replace the
government. If they don’t support Keke, then they should seek him and his out and destroy this
threat to their homeland. If they allow the AU’s in under these terms, they will soon be second
class people in their own country.

Personally, I think the truth lies in the deep sea geology of the region. The people of the
Solomon’s should be bombarding the UN with requests for military aid that originates from
countries more neutral to the long term outcome. If these people don’t take a proactive stance
and force this issue to the front page of western news outlets, they will not get the help that they
deserve.

[Loser]

Originally posted by Baron Grazic:
What happened in Tasmania? And I assume you don't mean Tasmania, Australia?

What other Tasmania? Althought there seems to be more questions here than I was previously aware of.

[Baron Grazic]

I thought their might have been another Tasmania in the US, or somewhere else.
I've heard of stories along these lines, but I'm staggered by those figures...
Some of the claims, I would want to see their evidence before giving them another thought, but then again, I could be biased. Some of my distant relatives were sent to Tassie as convicts...

But this is a different topic again from the Solomons...

[ July 10, 2003, 01:18: Message edited by: Baron Grazic ]

[deccan]

Warning: Long post.
Warning: Serious discussion.

Whoa, I didn't mean this to be another "heated debate" on the Iraq situation. Anyway, here's a lowdown on the Solomon Islands (S.I.) since Loser asked.

Some disclaimers: I've only been in the country since early 2000, so I'm not a native. I also don't go out much (hey, I'm an SEIV-playing nerd after all, otherwise I wouldn't be posting on this board), and I've only left the capital city Honiara once to visit the provinces in all my years here (sad, huh?). I'm no historian too, so I may get some facts wrong. Also, I'm a senior executive of one of the largest logging companies operating, so my views and opinions will inevitably reflect that fact.

S.I., as its name implies, is composed of many islands. For the purpose of this discussion, we'll ignore the small ones and geographically isolated ones (Ontong Java, Rennell Islands, Makira Province etc.) The most important islands / provinces we need to consider are Guadalcanal Island (Central Province), the Malaitan islands (Malaita Province), and the various islands that make up Western Province (Vangunu Island, New Georgia etc.)

As some of the more historically inclined people may know, S.I., and more specifically Guadalcanal Island, was a very important theatre of operations during World War II (WWII). It is believed that the losses suffered here by the Japanese Navy at the hands of U.S. forces prevented Japanese reinforcements from arriving at Midway and turning the tide of the crucial battle there. WWII-related events continues to play an important role even in modern S.I. life, because every year, many war veterans, both Japanese and American, visit the country to grieve for their lost comrades.

The thing is before WWII, under the rule of the British (who set up their administrative capital at Honiara on Guadalcanal Province), the populations of the various islands more or less stayed put. However, for various reasons, when the Americans came, for some reason, they found it useful to import large numbers of Malaitan people into Guadalcanal Province to work for them. Even today, most people (me included) believe that Malaitans are more hardworking, sharper, but also more war-like and aggressive than the natives of Guadalcanal. The "Gualais" as they are known, are often thought of as being "dull", "slow" and "lazy".

When WWII ended, guess what, the Malaitan population stayed on Guadalcanal, and through the decades, completely dominated economic and political life in Honiara. They bought large tracts of land in and around Honiara from the Guadalcanal natives who subsequently felt that they were "cheated" and eventually the Malaitan population grew to such a point that Honiara became a sort of mini-Malaita.

At the end of the 1990s, the major export industries in the Solomon Islands were timber (conducted mainly by Asian, specifically, Malaysian companies) and tuna fishing (conducted by EU fishing boats, yeah, those boats sure range far don't they?, the Taiwanese and the Japanese). There was also a promising gold mining project run by an Australian company on Guadalcanal Island and funded using Asian Development Bank and World Bank money.

The thing is most of the logging and fishing were located in the resource-rich Western Province, whose natives are widely considered as shrewd as the Malaitans, though nowhere near as prone to violence. So the situation was that the export earnings of the Western Province were being funnelled to Honiara, heavily taxed by the Malaitan political elite in the capital and only meagre returns were being sent back.

This, combined, with the second-class status that many Gualais felt they were being relegated to on their own island, is naturally a recipe for disaster.

At around the end of the 1990s, large Groups of young, unemployed Gualais began harrassing and threatening Malaitan people who had bought land on Guadalcanal, asking for return of the land or monetary compensation. These Groups coalesced around a loose organization called the Guadalcanal Liberation Army (GLA, I kid you not), later renamed the Isatabu Freedom Movement (IFM). Eventually, these militias forced Malaitans to leave land located at the outskirts of Honiara. After a bit of this, Honiara felt like a city under siege, since no one dared to enter or leave the city by land.

In response to this, the Malaitans formed a group of their own, the Malaita Eagle Force (MEF). There wasn't really much violence at the beginning but mostly they lobbied the S.I. Government (and the Prime Minister of that time in particular, a Malaitan named Ulufalu) to compensate the displaced Malaitans. However, because the GLA/IFM's activities were mainly concentrated in the outskirts of Honiara, the expatriate population at Honiara were mostly annoyed / fearful of the bands of MEF people. Ulufalu continued to deny the Malaitans' request to compensate the displaced people using government money (good for him, I say!) Eventually rumors surfaced in Honiara that Ulufalu was secretly organizing yet another militia group of his own, code-named Seagull, to use against the MEF.

This was compounded by rumors and warnings by the GLA/IFM that people who didn't want to be hurt should leave Honiara because they would soon emerge from the jungle and "take" the city. They eventually did take over the Ross Mining facility, and helped themselves to the guns and explosives stored there. The Australians were all evacuated by helicopter. I could hear the chopper going around all day.

The MEF, angry at Ulufalu's inaction against the GLA/IFM and worried about being boxed in, decided the best defense was a good offense. In early 2000, they executed a well-planned coup d'etat, taking control of all police stations and armouries in Honiara and placing Ulufalu under house arrest.

Well, that was a pretty eventful day to say the least. I woke up expecting just a normal workday like everyone else, but it soon became clear that the whole city was eeriely quiet. There was zero traffic in the street and all telephone lines were down. Everyone was huddled in their homes and then Andrew Nori, a prominent Malaitan lawyer and politician, came on the radio, and announced that the MEF had taken effective control of the city overnight. They had also commandeered the offices and facilities of the Solomon Islands Broadcasting Corporation and the Solomon Islands Telekom Company.

At around noon, MEF people, equipped with assault rifles and grenade launchers taken from the government armories began patrolling Honiara. They also started commandeering vehicles from people (we lost two cars and never recovered them). There was sporadic gunfire at the outskirts of the city when the GLA/IFM tried to find out what was happening (I live real close to the western edge of the city so I know). At this point however, the MEF vastly outgunned the GLA/IFM, so there was no real firefight.

Another complicating factor was that at this time, three Taiwanese warships were docked at Honiara, part of their annual visit here (the S.I. government recognizes Taipei instead of Beijing, and the Taiwanese give them money in return and try to give a good military showing every year). However, the Taiwanese refused to leave their ships (to be fair to them most of the guys on the ships were young men barely past their teens doing their obligatory military service) but stayed docked. After a while, the MEF and some prominent members of the Malaitan community wrote a letter warning the Taiwanese to stay out of S.I.'s domestic problems and the Taiwanese hauled anchor and left.

During this time, nobody left their houses and those who had satellite t.v. stayed glued to CNN (who were really exaggerating the situation here). The next day, we woke up to the sound of heavy automatic gunfire. The MEF had grabbed two police patrol boats and were strafing the coastline outside Honiara with machineguns. There was also some shooting at the international airport, which resulted in the cancellation of all international flights for the foreseeable future.

That day, we decided that it would be safer to hide out in the main, expensive hotel in the centre of the city (lots of expats there) than stay where we lived. That very night, while we were gone, our compound was broken into and raided. Heh.

But it wasn't until the Australian government decided to send warships to evacuate their citizens that we really started to panic (the Ozzies are leaving? They must know something we don't. Uh-oh.)

To be continued ...