Is this gamey?

Slynky · #1 July 25th, 2003, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by geoschmo:

quote:
Originally posted by Stone Mill:
This whole "gifting resources back thing" seems like a really difficult thing to do. Gifted resources come from your storage, IIRC. So that one planet must designate a significant portion of it's precious space to storage.

Well, you have 50K storage by default. Depending on your situation that could be considered an insignificant amount, or not.

Hehe, I don't know about the rest of you, but in most of my games, I certainly have wished for another 20 or 30k of minerals (or rads or whatever) per turn...

...to keep my fleet in the positive.

Wardad · #2 July 25th, 2003, 08:43 PM

The incredible amount of trade income available to a single planet empire is the only thing makes this gamey.

I don't think it is gamey to make a gift and expect gifts back. That is simply the easiest way to execute a long term trade agreement. I sell you one planet and you pay me back with interest over 30 turns.

PvK · #3 July 25th, 2003, 09:19 PM

It's pretty telling that no one has yet mentioned the "subjugation" or "protectorate" treaty type features in this discussion.

Seems like those are interesting features which are underdeveloped to the point that no one ever considers using them, but instead use Surrender or the sort of procedure described here. If the features were better developed and enforced in the game mechanics, it could change a common and somewhat questionable situation into a more interesting one.

A trade limit feature is a good idea.

Gifting should have some more game program support for limits, too.

PvK

DavidG · #4 July 26th, 2003, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stone Mill:
This whole "gifting resources back thing" seems like a really difficult thing to do. Gifted resources come from your storage, IIRC. So that one planet must designate a significant portion of it's precious space to storage.

And so what if they get a research bonus? It will not compare with an empire's research. Their progress will be quite slow.

As for incoming resources, what good are they when you only have one yard?

Besides, if it is an intel game, you can just crucify them with Communications mimic and other attacks.

Difficult?? how so? In this particular game (which BTW I'm 100% sure this type of gifting is NOT going on) 50k on minerals per turn would be quite significant. If he chose to build a couple storage facilities on the planet I think the gifts could approach 150-200k per turn which would almost equal my entire empires output

. (and no Intel is not turned on

)

Narf'scompatshop · #5 July 26th, 2003, 01:32 AM

ok, theoretical situation:

with just three allies, that could be 60% of there average resources.

with trade-back, an increase for each of them of 20%, without adding a trading partner. so the resources each would get would be equal to having a funtioning trading partner. 20% sounds small, but i don't think it is.

PvK · #6 July 26th, 2003, 02:24 AM

One counter-argument is that this could represent the effect of refugees, dissidents and underground resistance - things which aren't directly represented, but could abstractly be through this trade mechanic.

PvK

Grandpa Kim · #7 July 26th, 2003, 08:03 AM

Gamey? My goodness people, I do believe I could make a case for every feature of the game to be gamey.

It is gamey to:

use emergency build when there is no emergency
use retro-series building
NOT continue moving into a new and unknown system
be able to move the same number of sectors on the diagonal as on the horizontal or vertical
only be able to have 12 intel projects at one time (research too!)
bump up pop. on a planet by continually taking pop. from its moons
be able to move a freshly captured planet to jubilant on the turn

Well, you get the idea.

Until these types of games are so smoothed out as to be indistinguishable from analog, they will always be gamey.

I'm currently in a game where I am doing quite well. Two of my opponents have been so trod upon by my forces, that most of their planets must be rioting, but they continue to pour intel attacks on me simply because they still have viable partners. And its impossible to end this annoyance. Their planets are spread all over creation; borders are non-existant within their partnership. Whether by design or brotherly love, I don't know... and really don't care. Not because I think I can beat them anyway, but because I always go into a game expecting the worst and expecting some new wrinkle I never thought of. If it was the SOS every game, I wouldn't bother playing. Its things like this that keep the game fresh and new to me.

In-game rules are great; they can add a new wrinkle to game all by themselves. But if it ain't in those rules and isn't a cheat, its fine with me.