Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread Talk

[oleg]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
"What does ramming have to do with gameyness?"

It has nothing to do with speed, it doesn't miss, you can ram entire -stacks- of fighters..stuff like that.

But you can not ram fighters in simultaneous turn games. And for solo games, there is no such thing as a "gamey"

[PvK]

Ramming can be seen as extremely gamey, depending on whether players are more interested in things making sense, or more interested in gameplay.

For competetive gameplay, it is a sort-of-balanced option for ship designs to deal with superior enemies. It's kind of buggy, though.

From a "making sense" standpoint, I'd say it's utter nonsense. It doesn't make any sense that if one fleet is incapable of hitting an enemy with a weapon at range 1 (or zero), that they should have a 100% chance to ram the enemy. This is especially true considering the ship speeds, weapon ranges, "I go, you go" movement sequencing, and the need to rely on the AI during PBEM/PBW play.

Plenty of gamey objections. It's a crude game mechanic, with many dubious results.

In these ways, it seems that some players might prefer to play with a house rule not to include ramming, so it would warrant a place on the list.

PvK

[Cirvol]

me and a few others have talked about the real problem with se4 gold remaining...

initiative...

currently, going first in battle is a HUGE advantage since most of the time you end up withing weapons range right away, esp in big battles

currently, there seems to be no way to predict who goes first -- it really should be based on ship speed imho and it should be 'staggered'... ie, fastest ships first, regardless of 'turn'...

ie, my speed 10 ships go first, then your 9's, then my 8's, (and your 8's, interleaved ideally), then my 7's... blah blah

consequence is that ramming tactic can really beat superior forces if they get to go first... which is just plain wrong

fix initiative and then ramming is perfectly fine imho

please get aaron to patch this, it really is the most glaring balance issue in se4gold today imho

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Cirvol:
fix initiative and then ramming is perfectly fine imho

please get aaron to patch this, it really is the most glaring balance issue in se4gold today imho

While I can't disagree with you one bit, any sort of initiative system improvements are likely to be fairly complex changes and extremely unlikely during the remaining life of SE4. It's something that would require pretty much a rewrite, not so much a patch. However, I have high hopes that SE5 will have big improvements in that area particularly.

Geoschmo

[tesco samoa]

yea... i do not mind ships going first... but i think that speed along does not dictate which ship fires first.

You would think that most ships that are equal would all fire at the same time ( unless surprised )

So perhaps you have initivitive on weapons ( and then bonuses due to experience , computers )and minuses on ( surprise , damage , morale )

That way if 2 ships meet and one is destroyed ( perhaps they got their weapons off )

Hmmm oppertunity fire so if ship a moves within range of b weapons then b fires on the other players turn.... ( mind you they will not be able to fire on their turn as they used the weapon ... pretend real time )

[Fyron]

Well... it is likely that SE5 will have real time combat execution, which automatically factors in initiative stuff and elimates the dozens of idiosyncracies inherent in any turn based movement system.

PvK, I am not convinced that really has to do with gameyness, so much as realism. Gamey and real are not terms that have anything to do with each other.

[PvK]

What's your definition of gamey, Fryon?