Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread Talk

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Cirvol:
fix initiative and then ramming is perfectly fine imho

please get aaron to patch this, it really is the most glaring balance issue in se4gold today imho

While I can't disagree with you one bit, any sort of initiative system improvements are likely to be fairly complex changes and extremely unlikely during the remaining life of SE4. It's something that would require pretty much a rewrite, not so much a patch. However, I have high hopes that SE5 will have big improvements in that area particularly.

Geoschmo

[tesco samoa]

yea... i do not mind ships going first... but i think that speed along does not dictate which ship fires first.

You would think that most ships that are equal would all fire at the same time ( unless surprised )

So perhaps you have initivitive on weapons ( and then bonuses due to experience , computers )and minuses on ( surprise , damage , morale )

That way if 2 ships meet and one is destroyed ( perhaps they got their weapons off )

Hmmm oppertunity fire so if ship a moves within range of b weapons then b fires on the other players turn.... ( mind you they will not be able to fire on their turn as they used the weapon ... pretend real time )

[Fyron]

Well... it is likely that SE5 will have real time combat execution, which automatically factors in initiative stuff and elimates the dozens of idiosyncracies inherent in any turn based movement system.

PvK, I am not convinced that really has to do with gameyness, so much as realism. Gamey and real are not terms that have anything to do with each other.

[PvK]

What's your definition of gamey, Fryon?

[Grandpa Kim]

When I first started playing PBW, there was no mention of gaminess. If it was possible, you could do it, no questions asked. Now it seems if I take a deep breath someone complains. Things I've been doing routinely are now being questioned. I'd like to say, I don't know why, but I have some ideas.

#1. Pre-arranged excuse. "I lost because this was allowed". Since it can't possibly be the players own fault, he finds something to blame.

#2. Boredom with the standard rules. This one makes sense. By calling something gamey, you have a good enough reason to ban it from the game. But I do think most people are like Tesco: put it in the house rules and we will follow those rules. If it ain't there, it's allowed, gamey or not.

Mostly, the extremes some people go to to whine about perceived inequities are making me see why many people prefer to play within their own crowd. In fact, I'm leaning that way myself. Constant bickering and complaining about something that "should have been disallowed" is a real turn off and takes a good portion of fun out of the game. It's been said before: If you want a dead even game, play chess.

I do think all the talk about gamey moves has brought these whiners out of the woodwork and they now feel justified in pointing out every little bump in the road-- and we supplied them with the ammo! This is unfortunate because the subject should be discussed if only to make the list Fyron has started. But if you join a game, you accept the rules-- no whining, no *****ing and smile when you bite the dust.

(Hmm, that sounds like a rant... not my intent.)

[Rollo]

well said, Grandpa Kim

[Fyron]

The entire reason I created the list was to try to get every possible thing people could whine about cleared up at the start of every game.

Best rule of all to have:

If it is not explicitly forbidden by the game rules, it is allowed.

I suggest every game created from this point on have this rule in 2x font size, bold, and yellow, at the very beginning of the description. That should clear up the whining...

In fact, I request that Geoschmo add this to the default PBW game description (just the rule, not the bold yellow stuff ), so all new games created will have it in there (unless the host removes it).

[ July 30, 2003, 07:58: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]